Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:10 pm GMT by Carcass
This happened last night on Party Poker. After being really pissed and thinking lucky SOB, reevaluated the hand and decided that this player made a very good foray that worked out for him.
$25 pot limit table with 9 players. I'm under the gun with JJ. Raise 3 times BB. player 7 calls, so does button. Flop comes up.
J, 10, 3 rainbow
Looking pretty good for me with a set. I bet the pot. player 7 folds. Dealer doubles my bet. I'm a little surprised at such an agressive play when I have top set on the board. Think about what to do and decide to push back and essentially push my stack in to give poor odds to this player for a call. That means the pot is at about $32 after my reraise. To my surprise the button calls. My stomach sinks and the turn and river come
9h, x
The pot slides to the dealer as he turns over KQo. A damn straight. He made @$15 call into a 32 dollar pot with his hand. I believe I got suckered by his raise and he wanted me to push all in because he had a straight draw. Doing pot/hand odds afterwards made me believe that he made a very crafty play that just happened to pay off. He obviously puts me on a set and figures his straight would win the pot. Do you agree or was his play the mark of a bit of a maniac? Hoping to avoid this trap again. I think the biggest problem was that this was pot limit and I couldn't put enough in to make the odds bad enough for him on a straight draw.
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Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:22 pm GMT by Dave B
I doubt he put you on a set-likely just top pair. If he had a just the draw-he is getting even money to call. If he has a open end str8 and 2 overcards-then he has 14 outs and should raise and take control of the hand. By not raising, you are for sure going to shoot again on the turn, and he has another call to make or fold. By raising, you may check to him and he gets 2 shots to hit is 14 outs (even though he only had 8).
I wont do this in NL, but I will raise w/ open end str8 or flushdraws in position in limit.
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:53 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| Carcass wrote: | | I believe I got suckered by his raise and he wanted me to push all in because he had a straight draw. |
I don't think so, unless he is working in a different system of numbers that we have yet to discover. He was looking for a free river, and you made the correct play by not giving it to him.
Here's what he wanted to happen:
-He raises
-You call
-The turn comes (because of his raise on the flop he thinks you will check to him)
-If he hits on the turn he bets and takes your money
-If he misses the turn he checks for a free river
-If the river is a brick he gets out (relatively cheap)
-If he hits the river he takes your money
The only reason he raised the flop is because he thought it would be the cheapest way to see the next two cards.
Here's what actually happened:
-He raises
-You put him all-in
-He knows he's about a 2:1 dog (I don't know if he really knew this)
-He is forced to call because he is getting better than 2:1 on his draw and he has uppers
-He calls, hits his draw and wins
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be called when you have the nuts. Nice hand, tough beat. He played the hand correctly too (except for calling the preflop raise).
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:55 pm GMT by Carcass
Yeah. That even money call was the killer there. He definitely did take control of the hand, whether he knew it or not. I don't know what other defense I had in this situation in pot limit other than check the set, expect a pot bet from my opponent with the overcards, call and wait for the turn and then reevaluate the board. Not much of a defense. This is not something I like to consider doing with a set and no flush draws on the board. It's a weak play and something that likely could get you into trouble. It just happened to be a set gone wrong. I would only consider him with 8 realistic outs in this situation. From my vantage point he'd have to hit runner runner K or Q for the others.
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:16 pm GMT by Carcass
He could have been looking at the implied odds of my all in move is a more succinct way of what i'm trying to say. My all in would give him the turn and river for one bet. Much better than waiting to see the turn river separately. We were both playing endgame here and he had a good odds if he gets me all in.
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:17 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| Carcass wrote: | | From my vantage point he'd have to hit runner runner K or Q for the others. |
Actually if he got running queens or kings you'd still win! Full house vs three of a kind.
Posted Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:21 pm GMT by Carcass
You're right. My bad. This one is bouncing around in my head. Just need to let it go. Get back on the horse.
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