Posted Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:52 am GMT by Dias
So I go into the Grand in Biloxi, get on the list for the 1/4/8/8 table
I buy in and am sitting, playing tight, throwing garbage away like I wold normally do...watching the table call everything...5-6 players see the flop every hand. So Im thinking if Im gonna try a hand, just be patient, wait for something decent and go.
I catch AK from early position, guy in front of my me raises to 4, I call...4 others call. Flop is A 4 9 rainbow. I feel im in pretty good shape here and figure I'd better make a bet to try and get someone off the hand...bet max of 4, 2 people fold, 3 call. Turn comes blank, I bet max, 8. one guy calls. river is a Q. I bet max, guy calls and flips over Q9 for 2 pair on river...im a bit steamed but can live with it..
Next hand I play, A 10 out of small blind. I call the 4 its been raised to and see the flop. A 5 10 on flop. I come out betting max, 2 people call. Turn is 9, I bet again, one guy calls, river a 8. I bet, guy calls and flips J7 over for the straight.....
Ok...if he had had JQ, I could see staying on the draw....but J7? runner runner to catch the straight...
I had another hand later where I flopped two pair with garbage cards after limping in on small blind....only to have the guy catch running spades to bet me with 93 in his hand...
So I suppose my question is this....how do you beat this kind of playing?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:02 am GMT by Dave B
I played 15/30 on Friday and had the exact same thing. 2 players, one on my left and one across the table saw 95% of flops.
This one really chapped my hide. I limp w/ 97 suited (every hand has 5-6 callers), button raises, I call-big pot. Flop 9 6 5, cool-top pair w/ gutshot, not bad. Someone in EP bets, I raise, button reraises, all call. Turn blank, all check to the button, he bets all call.
River 8 BINGO hit the gutshot. Original bettor bets....hmmm, new players raises, I see a 2-3 split pot at best-not happy, but I certainly am not going to reraise w/ 2nd nuts at this point-I call. Button throws down 99 face up for the top set and folds.
Showdown-A7, 97 (me) 10 7 for the nuts. $750 pot....damn.
BTW-the 10 7 (it was sooooooted) actually didnt have bad odds for his gut shot. While we were chasing a straight w/ another draw, he was chasing the nuts. This guy was up about $5,000 when I left. Very nice, quiet, unassuming Indian or Pak guy-it was even hard to get pissed at him as he took EVERYONES money. Not bad for 12 hours work.
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:42 am GMT by Dias
man Dave..thats pretty rough
So its safe to assume its pretty normally at a limit table to have 5+ callers pre-flop and no hand is safe unless its the nuts?
I guess its hard to wrap my head around just throwing money at pots hoping you suck out a winner..
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:52 am GMT by Dave B
Play pot odds and hope for the best. Over time, more $$$ will come your way if you chase "smart" versus just chasing.
BTW-bluffed a WSOP finalist off of a big pot w/ 2nd pair when a 4th suited hit. One reraise-bye bye him, hello pot! "Minnesota Mike", thanks for the $300.
That move would NOT work at lower limits. Play is crazy, but "smart" crazy.
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:02 am GMT by Always_Bored
| Dave B wrote: |
That move would NOT work at lower limits. Play is crazy, but "smart" crazy. |
depends. Ive made plays like that at 5-10.
or ive done the call, call, miss my draw sense he is weak and reraise with nothing and won pots at 5-10.
Posted Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:29 pm GMT by dopemope223
| Dias wrote: |
I catch AK from early position, guy in front of my me raises to 4, I call...4 others call. |
WHY THE HELL WOULDN'T YOU RAISE THIS
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:34 am GMT by Dias
| dopemope223 wrote: | | Dias wrote: |
I catch AK from early position, guy in front of my me raises to 4, I call...4 others call. |
WHY THE HELL WOULDN'T YOU RAISE THIS |
Nice caps btw...thanks for yelling.
Lets see, whole table calls every bet pre-flop....why would I raise after everyone puts money in? 6 caller each is for 4 dollars, why would I think me raising 4 more dollars would make ANY of them fold? I was at a table full of people that didnt pay attention to position or anything. I fely it was not worth the risk of throwing more money in the pot. I when I hit top pair on flop I bet as strong as I could from my positon, max bet each time. Not sure what else could be expected to try and push people off a hand. AK is not the nuts preflop....
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:59 am GMT by Dave B
2 things:
1) AK-I rarely 3 bet in limit w/ AK, it isnt that good
2) Not raising with a hand that you think is the best because others will call anyway is not good play. You have excellent position here to limit the field down from 5-6 callers to 2-3 IF you wish. I would do this w/ AA KK QQ JJ 10s. One raise means nothing, 3 bets means a hand-calling 3 bets cold is a lot different that limping and then calling 2 more.
Also, lets say that you did 3 bet and hit the flop. If the 1st raiser comes out betting and you reraise now, people are a lot more willing to lay down that if you didnt reraise preflop. Or, say you hit and he checks, if you check and check raise so that checkers behind you have to call 2 bets cold, they will lay down.
People complain about low limit chasers. There are little subtle things that you can do to limit the number of chasers. You still cant expect to take down a pot early, but if you can get 2 more to fold out of a 5 way pot, you now have 50% less opponents chasing from behind. That is significant. Assuming the folders are WAY behind, you might not win 50% more pots, but you might win 10-20% more, and that will separate a winner from a loser.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:33 am GMT by Dias
Thank you for that information...was much better than the response posted above which i responded to
So I should have raised it once more as it got to me, not in hopes people are going to not call it, but to position myself so that if I do hit the flop, when i bet, people fold.
i knew that...I really did, just didnt click in my head as it should have. Im gonna take another shot at it when i go down south again, my first casino table was not neccessarily a bad experience, just a pricey one for me. Gonna have to re-eval what I consider strong hands to be, and be much more willing to lay them down to save myself that last bet or so if need be
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:03 am GMT by Dave B
Im not saying to 3 bet w/ nothing just to limit the field, I wouldnt even 3 bet AK there-just call as you did. My point was that you cant approach these tables w/ a the defeatest attitude that everyone will just call anyway-so why raise at all.
This is also why I recommend 4-6 hours minumum for live games. They may not respect your raises in the 1st hour or two, but people will notice over time if you only come in strong w/ strength. Ever have an old timer at the table that raise once every 20 hands and everyone folds?
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:56 pm GMT by Dias
Aye, in retrospect...I believe thats what I was thinking...not really the "they will call anways" mentality...more of a "I wanna see this flop and go from there" thought process.
The whole night was just one long suckout it felt like.
So was hard to have a good look at my play afterwards...ive been thinking about it quite a bit, trying to see where i could shore up my game some.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:29 pm GMT by arras
The games aren't always tough at the Grand, you proably just sat down at a bad table. One thing rings true, agression wins. I've seen it over and over with people playing junk, but playing very aggresively and watch people fold the best hand. If you don't smoke, I have found the games in Gulport (card room is no-smoking) to be easier.
Posted Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:56 am GMT by Dias
Well, I do know that 3 of the guys sitting at the table were all golfing buddies down on some trip...so they probably werent exactly tight with there money...i know they called alot at the tables.
Which casino has a room in Gulfport? I had to ask at the Imperial to find the ones in Biloxi
Posted Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:57 am GMT by arras
The Grand is in Biloxi and Gulfport. Its right at the corner of Hwy 49 and Hwy 98 in Gulfport.
Posted Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:55 am GMT by Dias
Ok
Thanks. =)
|
|
