Posted Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:45 pm GMT by krakajak
Here's a hand I don't like how I played, but I'm not exactly sure what I should have done differently. Hands like this wouldn't be a problem if they only happened every once in a while, but lately it seems like every time I get a little bit ahead, a hand like this comes along and takes it all back. It is beginning to get tiresome.
$1/$2 limit, 7 handed. I raise 1st in from ep with AJo. two late position players call, so does BB.
Flop: 2, 4, 8 rainbow. It checks around.
Turn: 5 it checks around to the button, who bets. BB folds. I picked up a gut shot. Also, I figure with only one opponent (maybe 2 if the other LP player calls), there's a good chance my outs to the overcards are good. Plus, some players can't resist a chance to bluff in this situation. I might have the button beat without improving. This hand is definately worth a call.
River, a queen. I think about bluffing at the queen, but then I think that he's not going to fold a better hand anyway, so I just check, hoping he does too. He bets. I'm getting 7:1 to call. Is there a one in seven chance that he's bluffing? Sure there is. I call.
How should I have played it?
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Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:00 am GMT by suitedaces84
Ditch it or bluff at it. What kind of pot do you expect to win with one card on the ass end of a straight or a pair? With a board containing 2 3 4 and 5 and a preflop raiser, it will be very difficult to get called by a hand worse than yours if your draw hits. So to summarize, the problem with your draw is it has no implied odds, even if you hit you can't get much.
Just wondering, but what if you hit your on the river and someone bets big? You know at best you're looking at a split pot, at worst you're losing big. A stab at the pot on the flop is not a bad idea, because odds are, everyone missed it. I probably would have checked the flop and folded the turn. There's three others in the hand, do you really think no one hit a pair?
Check, call and hope he's bluffing is nothing but trouble. Also, how about some bet amounts?
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:59 am GMT by krakajak
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Also, how about some bet amounts? |
$1/$2 limit.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:00 am GMT by suitedaces84
| krakajak wrote: | | suitedaces84 wrote: | | Also, how about some bet amounts? |
$1/$2 limit. |
For some reason I was under the impression it was NL, my post should probably be disreguarded.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:12 pm GMT by age_of_sages
As the preflop raiser you either want to be aggressive on the flop or be ready to fold to any bet later on. Check call in this situation is prolly the worst play you can make and just screams of something like AK that missed.
You want to bet the flop and see where you are, if there's any callers and you don't hit the turn check it down. You may get a free look at the river, but fold at any sign of aggression if you don't hit.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:20 pm GMT by krakajak
| age_of_sages wrote: | | You want to bet the flop and see where you are, if there's any callers and you don't hit the turn check it down. You may get a free look at the river, but fold at any sign of aggression if you don't hit. |
That is what I usually do when I am last to act, or with one player after me, but with two opponents cold-calling, I figured one probably had a pocket pair.
Posted Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:11 pm GMT by snoogins47
| krakajak wrote: | | age_of_sages wrote: | | You want to bet the flop and see where you are, if there's any callers and you don't hit the turn check it down. You may get a free look at the river, but fold at any sign of aggression if you don't hit. |
That is what I usually do when I am last to act, or with one player after me, but with two opponents cold-calling, I figured one probably had a pocket pair. |
You porbably have outs, you might have the best hand, people are stupid, you raised preflop, and the pot is big. I recommend betting that flop.
Posted Sun May 01, 2005 3:08 am GMT by gol4pro
Takes a stronger hand to call with than to bet with.
If your're willing to call a bet, why not make one?
Posted Sun May 01, 2005 4:40 am GMT by JohnnyCache
Should have bet on the turn to see where you were...
Posted Mon May 02, 2005 12:41 pm GMT by krakajak
| gol4pro wrote: | Takes a stronger hand to call with than to bet with.
If your're willing to call a bet, why not make one? |
This statement is completely wrong. With drawing hands, you often want to see the next card as cheaply as possible, so you will often be in a position where you are willing to call a bet, even though you aren't willing to bet.
For example, suppose I have a flush draw on the turn. There are 5 big bets in the pot, and two opponents remain. If I bet and am called by both opponents, I am only getting 2:1 on that bet; the odds of my making the flush do not justify the bet. However, if my opponent bets, I am getting 6:1 to call; the odds clearly justify a call.
Of course, if you have fold eqity in the bet, then that could shift the balance of the equasion. However, There are times when you know your opponent won't fold, so your fold equity is zero. Also, there is the chance that you will be raised, which means that you have paid 7:2 for your flush draw, which the odds do not justify.
Posted Mon May 02, 2005 1:33 pm GMT by age_of_sages
| krakajak wrote: | gol4pro wrote:
Takes a stronger hand to call with than to bet with.
If your're willing to call a bet, why not make one?
This statement is completely wrong. With drawing hands, you often want to see the next card as cheaply as possible, so you will often be in a position where you are willing to call a bet, even though you aren't willing to bet.
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| krakajak wrote: | Flop: 2, 4, 8 rainbow. It checks around.
Turn: 5 it checks around to the button, who bets. BB folds. I picked up a gut shot. Also, I figure with only one opponent (maybe 2 if the other LP player calls), there's a good chance my outs to the overcards are good. Plus, some players can't resist a chance to bluff in this situation. I might have the button beat without improving. This hand is definately worth a call.
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You already posted the exact reason why gol4pro's statement is correct.
If you just check around to the button, there's a good chance he's gonna bet at that whether he has anything or not, and then you call and have absolutely no information about what he has. If you bet out at that pot not only do you have great fold equity, but you'll have a pretty good idea where you are. If you get just calls it's likely they've got some piece of that flop but you still have outs to beat them, and if you get raised, you get get out of that pot then and there without having to put in any expensive bets on the turn or river to find out you had a losing hand. Also betting out on the flop may buy you a free river card so you could be seeing more cards for less than what it cost you the way you played it.
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