Posted Fri May 13, 2005 1:01 am GMT by kingpin707
what'sup fella's
first question. when i went to the poker room, 3/6 on a weekday nite, tables weren't exactly full, and i don't know if this has to do with the night it was or what not, but THERE WAS LIL or NO ACTION. when i i sat down, i immediately came up 40 bucks, so, i figga'd i'd start making raises and showing marginal or less hands to look "weak" and to start getting some callers hopefully in the future.
and just for your information, i've played tight and aggressive poker before that...i was starting to think, i'm too predictable. so at that this, i decided i wanted to learn how to "change gears" and "mix up my game".
moments later a maniac comes in. he's on my left. starts making crazee raises, and soon nuff, the battle is mainly against him and some other player across the table... a friendly rivalry if ya will.
any ways, i paid for a lesson that night basically, and i couldn't figga out exactly how to adapt to the players. all the actions was basically coming from the maniac, this extremely loose fellow, and the other guy. i've missed a couple of striaghts, lost big pots to by being out rivered and missing my cards when people stradle or kill pot.
let me know if you guys need more information, but other than that, hopefully someone can share some knowledge.
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Posted Fri May 13, 2005 3:52 pm GMT by Loonbat
3/6 is my game and while I dabble at higher stakes on rare occasion and occasionally forray into NL online, I prefer 3/6 for "low stress, good time" poker. You discovered a rarity - it sounds like a tight 3/6 game is what you started in. Realize that for most poker rooms, week nights (M-Th), during the weekday and Sunday mornings are more likely your regular players than the tourists. Because of this, I would expect the play to be a little tighter than normal. Personally, I prefer Friday/Saturday Amateur Nights - this is when I can usually bank. The downside are the maniacs.
My advice, based on about 100 hours a month of live 3/6 play for the last year and a half - play tighter with the maniacs and looser with the tight tables (I guarantee some will disagree with me on this). Also, in Texas Hold'em, cards become nearly secondary when you take position into account. Your play should change as you move from early to late position in every rotation. That T8s that you wouldn't touch UTG is a good, unraised call on the button.
A maniac sitting directly to your left is an issue. The only time he acts before you preflop is when you're the BB. But, go back up to my earlier statement ... " play tighter with the maniacs and looser with the tight tables". Play top 10 hands and all pp's (in late position). Hope for the flop you can trap with. If you only had a few opponents to worry about (not a full 9 maniacs at the table), your top 10 hands would probably do reasonably well 3 or 4-handed. Also, make them pay when you grab the top 4 hands (AA, KK, AKs, QQ). Reraise and jam the pot.
When on the draw, take into account the maniacs and the expected raises when you look at pot odds and expected value. "Okay - I'm betting $3 on the flop but I'm sure that one of these 3 bozos will raise..." That sort of thing.
Switching gears - I try not to play too much with the psychology of the game at this low level - it's not really worth it. If you're showing only strong hands and wins, you're more likely to take down pots with a semibluff (or stone cold bluff). Some say you can't effectively do this at 3/6 ... I do it about 15% of the time. The other 85% I'm showing them good hands, or monsters. I'll even show my missed hands once in awhile (A9s, having 4 to the flush on the flop). This can get players thinking, wondering if you're coming out with a bet on a hand or on a draw. This is a way to mix it up.
A good example of my last sessions "mixing it up" was playing 3 2 suited on the button. Flopping bottom two pair, I took the hand and by showing this winning hand alone, I'm sure I generated more action in other pots.
The best advice I have is position play, getting a bit looser as you get closer to having the button, and tightening up like a clam in early and mid position.
Good luck.
-Loon
Posted Fri May 13, 2005 10:12 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| kingpin707 wrote: | | moments later a maniac comes in. he's on my left. |
That was probably a huge part of the problem. There's nothing worse than having the table maniac raise it up on you everytime. When this happens to me online I find a new table or seat.
The one thing I would recommend is check-raise him when you hit something, as opposed to just betting.
Posted Tue May 17, 2005 10:46 pm GMT by Buffarino
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | kingpin707 wrote: | | moments later a maniac comes in. he's on my left. |
That was probably a huge part of the problem. There's nothing worse than having the table maniac raise it up on you everytime. When this happens to me online I find a new table or seat.
The one thing I would recommend is check-raise him when you hit something, as opposed to just betting. |
You're assuming a 3/6 player will even notice a check-raise. Many I've seen wouldn't.
Posted Tue May 17, 2005 11:44 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Buffarino wrote: | | You're assuming a 3/6 player will even notice a check-raise. Many I've seen wouldn't. |
You're not doing it to get him out of the pot. You're doing it to build the pot or protect your hand against other players.
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | The one thing I would recommend is check-raise him when you hit something, as opposed to just betting. |
I like betting against maniacs more frequently than check-raising, but it depends on relative position and what you're trying to accomplish. Getting money in the pot isn't usually a problem with these players, and they can be quite useful in helping protect your hand in full games.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 1:04 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
The way you respond to a maniac, at least I've noticed, doesn't depend strictly on the maniac, but how others react to the maniac. If everyone else becomes overly tight, that's fantastic for you, because it's now easy to get the maniac heads-up by re-raising him strategically. If you're playing against a true maniac who raises nearly EVERY pot, by and large he is going to only have an average-strength hand.
Here's where you apply a little game theory. If you have a better than average hand (not much better, just slightly above average), you reraise him to isolate (works better if you're on his left, but if you're on the right, raise first and hope he'll reraise and isolate you with the same effect). If you continue to isolate him, and you're coming in with above average hands while he comes in with only average hands, you will win in the long run. You will likely see some big swings, but it will work statistically.
The nice thing is that you also gain knowledge about the strength of other peoples' hands, because to cold call 3 bets or reraise to cap, you are fairly sure now that they have a truly premium hand and can let him take care of the maniac with only a slight loss to yourself.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 10:29 pm GMT by Buffarino
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | Buffarino wrote: | | You're assuming a 3/6 player will even notice a check-raise. Many I've seen wouldn't. |
You're not doing it to get him out of the pot. You're doing it to build the pot or protect your hand against other players. |
Then why bother with the check raise? Bet it out and if he raises you, you can reraise back. He is a maniac, right?
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 10:36 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Buffarino wrote: | | Then why bother with the check raise? Bet it out and if he raises you, you can reraise back. He is a maniac, right? |
Actually, I said I preferred that method, but you left that part of the quote out...
Betting into him isn't always the best way to build the pot though. If you flop a really big hand, you don't want to lose people behind him, so you check to the maniac a let him/her get the ball rolling. Once there are a few calls behind, then you can raise.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 10:43 pm GMT by Buffarino
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | Buffarino wrote: | | Then why bother with the check raise? Bet it out and if he raises you, you can reraise back. He is a maniac, right? |
Actually, I said I preferred that method, but you left that part of the quote out...
Betting into him isn't always the best way to build the pot though. If you flop a really big hand, you don't want to lose people behind him, so you check to the maniac a let him/her get the ball rolling. Once there are a few calls behind, then you can raise. |
If you flop a monster, you're right. Otherwise, with a good but not great hand, I bet it out.
Then again, what the hell do I know? I just got my ass kicked at 3/6 in the Mirage a week or so ago. I won't post the obligatory bad beat stories, but there was a lady who sat down to my left who saw every single flop for an hour and a half (until I left). And she was catching cards. I'm sure she eventually redistributed my money to the other players at the table.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 10:44 pm GMT by suitedaces84
I was refering to hitting a set, or something of that nature. The maniac will allow you to control how many players stay in the hand, a check raise will keep most players around, betting will put them out. I guess my point was if you know what your oppoent's next move is you should take full advantage of it.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 10:45 pm GMT by Buffarino
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | I was refering to hitting a set, or something of that nature. The maniac will allow you to control how many players stay in the hand, a check raise will keep most players around, betting will put them out. I guess my point was if you know what your oppoent's next move is you should take full advantage of it. |
Gotcha. I misunderstood you and Sean.
Posted Wed May 18, 2005 11:30 pm GMT by MasterShake
I would move seats as quickly as possible if a maniac sat to my left.
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 10:57 am GMT by Buffarino
| MasterShake wrote: | | I would move seats as quickly as possible if a maniac sat to my left. |
She wasn't a maniac. She was mostly a calling station. Just saw every single flop and caught a piece of it almost every time.
For example, I've got KQ offsuit (forget where the button was). Everyone limps in. Flop comes K2X rainbow. I bet, she calls (might have been one or two other callers - I don't remember). Turn comes 9, I bet, she calls (everyone else folds). River comes 7. I bet, she calls. She flips over 72 offsuit to beat me with 2 pair and was calling all the way down with bottom pair and a K on the board.
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