Posted Fri May 20, 2005 9:35 am GMT by ErinJeff
This came up in a weekly tournament my wife and I play. Tournament format: 50 chips per buyin, can rebuy 3x; 23 total buyins in pot, winner take all. Blinds start at 1/2 and are currently 8/16. Down to the final three, me, my wife, and one other. I raise preflop on the button to 32 and both other players call. I had a tight table image and was bluffing Q6o to take down the blinds. Flop comes K74 rainbow, both players check to me and I make it 64 to go (about 1/2 my remaining stack). My wife folds and other player calls. I know he will chase, esp late in a tournament; he calls again, but I don't see any obvious draws. At this point I think I'm beat and don't want to lose any more chips. Turn-check, check. River-check, check. He says "I got nothing" and throws his cards into the muck. Here's the question: I'm pretty sure the rules say it's now my pot, but I didn't have anything either. I muck my cards and he says he had A high (the winning hand). How would you handle this? I'll post the outcome after I hear some replies.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 9:44 am GMT by tame_deuces
His hand is dead as he mucked first and was first to act. It will only be made live if you as the winner of the pot requests too see it (and in that case it would win).
And there is NOTHING ethically wrong about this at all. Actually, mucking an ace-high after lots of checking is an incredibly stupid move on the river.
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 9:52 am GMT by Dave B
I agree. He was an idiot, you did nothing wrong, that is your pot.
BTW, he might have been lying and actually had 65 for the open end str8 draw. People have been known to lie in poker.
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 11:04 am GMT by redd38
It's definately your pot
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 12:09 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
I agree above but also have to add.....
You have no way of knowing he actually had A hi. I regularly lie about what i had after i mucked, i say underpair or low end str8 or whatever. (altho i aint ever said A hi yet  )
So as soon as his cards hit the muck and he tells you "A hi" scoop that pot, look him right in the eye, smile and say "that's a shame, i had Q hi"
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 12:09 pm GMT by ErinJeff
So here's what happened. After he said he had A hi I didn't feel right about taking the pot from him. We turned over our mucked cards and he had the cards he said. He scraped the pot and I told him that next time he mucks that's it. This is the same group I had to convince that anteing 1 chip every hand (out of 20 starting chips), no blind structure and no increasing blinds, was not the best way to run a tourney. It took several weeks just to convince everyone that a minimum bet needs to be at least the BB. I'm still trying to get everyone to make reraises at least as large as the previous bet, and not just the minimum BB bet. They just don't get the reason for a lot of these rules. I can't complain too much as my wife or I have won this tournament 10 of the 16 weeks that we've been playing. The winnings finance our cash games later in the week. I did go on to win this night also after a couple of tough calls and a PP that held up against overcards.
Posted Fri May 20, 2005 4:52 pm GMT by lilitu
I get into the same sorts of situations myself. I run two or more home games a week, one of them isn't technically my home game but I have to run it anyway.
In this situation I think you probably made the right call. Being seen as honest now is very important when you run a game that isn't your own, as it sounds like your doing.
Running any kind of home game is usually a headache. People piss and whine at whatever format / ruling you choose however whan you ask for their imput the answer usually comes "your mother has a penis". Better to been seen to be as honest as possible, especially if the effect on your winnings is going to be minimal.
Lilitu
Posted Sat May 21, 2005 12:18 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| lilitu wrote: |
In this situation I think you probably made the right call. Being seen as honest now is very important when you run a game that isn't your own, as it sounds like your doing.
Lilitu |
If I had a pair of nines on a A A K Q 2 board and bet the river and you fold your pair of tens, am I being dishonest?
A fold is an action available to you in poker just like checking, betting and calling. This guy in question chose to fold his hand instead of having a no-cost chance of checking it and winning the pot, he has forfeited the chance he had by the rules to win the pot without cost. Not only that, but an ace high might VERY well win this hand by judging the checking on the last rounds. He did a strategically bad poker move and lost because of it.
And ALSO remember. The reason he folded was probably because the other guy had shown strength earlier in the hand. Think about that for a second, bettor bets early in the hand , he showed strength making ace-high think he was beat on the river, and hence he folded. That is as legit a poker play as you can have it! Anything else is like saying each time you try to bluff you have to flip your cards over.
It doesn't matter WHY you fold. A mucked hand is a mucked hand, it is dead. R.I.P. Gone. It doesn't count anymore. That's poker. It does not matter if I lose because I fold, call, go all in with 8-2 offsuit or I get sucked out with a set of aces./b
Posted Sat May 21, 2005 1:42 pm GMT by lilitu
In any casino or public card room it would be correct to scoop the pot no questions. However in this instance, IMO he gains more in the long run sacrificing this pot in favour gaining the trust of a home game that clearly needs guidance.
Long term he can use his trust to steer a mis-guided game in the right direction.
Lilitu
Posted Tue May 24, 2005 12:04 pm GMT by ErinJeff
My wife won this tournament again last night. 11 for 17. We're up over $500 (considering $5 buyins that's a lot). The crowd is getting restless with our consistent winning.
Posted Tue May 24, 2005 6:28 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Recommend them a poker book. 
Seriously, if it was bridge (which I have not played, so excuse me if I am wrong) everybody would expect people to become better and take an interest in the more advanced points of the game. But with poker it seems people are content with calling a huge overbet a bluff and saying 'again?!' when they call down with second best hand.
Maybe not all agree with me, but when I play poker, or any game for that matter, I play to win (though the competition at my current level may not require that I be a good player to do that). And poker isn't a triathlon, there is not some genetic variation or need of years of physical training making it impossible for some people to hold their own in poker, therefore I do not have any sympathy with people who consistently lose (atleast not if they lose small amounts).
It's their own fault that they lose!!
Recommend them a poker book and say it helped you start winning at the casinos or something along those lines.
|
|
