Good bluff or Bad Penguin? |
|
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 9:54 am GMT by p3nguin
OK, I didn't think to save the hand so I will do my best to recreate it as accurately as I can:
SNG And due to some luck I am sitting on a HUGE stack. I have around $6500 chips. Remaining players have $2400, $1800, $1400 and $1000. These numbers are all aproximate but the point is I was winning big time.
I get K6 suited on the button, big blind is $50. All call to me so I call (I know, not a great hand).
Flop comes K42
All check to me, I decide it would be a good idea to use my stack and my position so I make a pot sized bet of $200.
Fold, fold, fold guy with $1000 calls.
Turn shows a Q, suit does not matter because there is no streight possible.
Small stack bets $200, this leaves him with $600.
I raise putting him all in. Now I know this is a bluff. I know I am probably beat at this point. But I figure that he cant have much better otherwise he would have gone all in with his stack size. I also know that unless he has something great he can't call me or he is out.
I have top pair with a worthless kicker, small stack says "WTF? you hit your 2 pair?" I didn't say anything. Then he says "I am folding AK, you better show".
I don't usually show, but this guy and I had had some funny banter before this hand and I felt like granting his request so I show him.
The guy went off, telling me what a crappy player I was, how I should never bet 4xBB on the flop with just top pair, how he hates losing to crappy players, the same stuff I hear pretty much every night.
So I guess I am just wondering if my play was that bad, I mean I knew it was a bluff, and I don't bluff often at all. I figured I had position and the stack to not be hurt too badly were it to not work. Am I justifying bad play or was this a legitimate way to play this particular hand?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:13 am GMT by Soup_dog
What are you kidding? Your the big stack! You use that stack. Push people out of pots, put pressure on them.... sheesh. It's poker! It's war! Don't let the baby push you off of your game just because he made the wrong read. Thats what a big stack is for.
Good play in my opinion. I would do the same thing. A big stack gives you the flexibility to mess with peoples heads.
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:16 am GMT by Muck
| p3nguin wrote: |
The guy went off, telling me what a crappy player I was, how I should never bet 4xBB on the flop with just top pair, how he hates losing to crappy players, the same stuff I hear pretty much every night.
|
It sounds like the guy thought you were value betting and that you assigned too much value to your hand. Did you explain that you were pretty sure you were beat and it was just a bluff?
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:22 am GMT by p3nguin
| Muck wrote: |
It sounds like the guy thought you were value betting and that you assigned too much value to your hand. Did you explain that you were pretty sure you were beat and it was just a bluff? |
Well, in the post hand banter he did say something like "nice bluff jerkoff" to which I replied "Thanks!"
So I don't know what he thought. Was a pot sized bet the wrong move one the flop? At that point I knew the hand didn't warrant quite that large a bet, I guess I was kinda bluffing already. If the stack sizes were different I wouldn't have bet the pot on top pair/useless kicker so I was aware I was pushing people around, it happens to me all the time so I figured why not.
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:47 am GMT by Muck
Pre-flop no one raises.
Post flop, every checks to you on the button with top pair.
You’ve good position and a good stack so you made a fair bet to either win it or get some information.
I think the biggest mistake here was the guy calling your bet on the flop. If I was him I’d be straight over the top with an all-in re-raise.
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:48 am GMT by Hurricane Ham
Um...he played his AK like a chump. Didn't raise pre flop, slowplayed TOP PAIR after the flop, and let you "catch up," or so he thought, on the turn. You did fine, strong play and put pressure on. He did pretty much everything wrong that he could have in that hand, and you did nothing wrong (save maybe calling with K6 pre-flop).
You putting him all in may not necessarily be a bluff either, you may very well have had the best hand. He could've put you on a steal from the button, then hit his queen on the turn and wanted to bet into you to see if you had a hand. You played it well, he played it terrible, then he berates your play. I love online poker. 
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 10:56 am GMT by Skribbles
Its his own damn fault for you being in the hand. Mistakes he made....
1) AK and does not raise pre-flop allowing 5 people into the pot.
2) Checks it to you on the flop. Not a bad move in itself. The bad move was not raising your pot size bet to know where he stood.
3) He bet out approx. 1/3 of the pot on the turn. If my math is right there would have been 250 chips pre-flop and another 400 on the flop, 650 total. His bet of 200 on the turn was WEAK.
4) Laying down TPTK when he already had half of his chips in the pot. He wouldn't get a much better situation to to double up so he may as well take it here.
What you did right...
1) Limped in on the button with a mediocre hand. Nothing wrong with that at all especially when you have such a huge chip lead.
2) Checks around on the flop. You have top pair with a bad kicker. You did just what you should have. Put out a pot size bet to get info or even take down the pot right there.
3) Re-raising all-in on the turn is a questionable move. But with the stack sizes it is definitly justifiable.
There is no way he should have folded to you.... You played it right, he didn't.
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 11:12 am GMT by p3nguin
Wow, thanks for the analysis everyone. I have been reading these forums for a bit now and with the quality of people here I can say it is definately making me a better poker player. This site is awsome!
I had some doubts but it is reassuring to hear that I might be starting to play correctly.
I am still playing the little tables ($.50/$1/$2) but my bankroll is still bigger than when I started so I must be learning something (my first buy-in 6 months ago of $100 dissapeared in 3 days).
Anyway, thanks again for the insight I may be swiming with the sharks someday soon and taking your money!
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 12:15 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| p3nguin wrote: | | The guy went off, telling me what a crappy player I was, how I should never bet 4xBB on the flop with just top pair, how he hates losing to crappy players, the same stuff I hear pretty much every night. |
There's nothing wrong with the way you played that hand, however I wouldn't have bothered justifing your play.
If you don't think it's a waste of time to justify your play for your oppoents please refer to the link below.
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/t10914/i-made-this-guy-soooo-mad-justified-play
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 12:30 pm GMT by p3nguin
That was one of my favorite threads! Not only for the sheer amusement factor but I learned that if the odds are good enough limping in with crap is ok.
But yeah, trying to explain it to him at the time was a waste. I should have used the line I saw in the other thread:
"You are right, next time I should just fold"
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 12:36 pm GMT by Dave B
My guess is he was chasing w/ junk 2nd or 3rd pair and lied about laying down AK.
I do this a lot to make others believe I am much tighter than I am.
Posted Wed May 25, 2005 6:27 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Dave B wrote: | | My guess is he was chasing w/ junk 2nd or 3rd pair and lied about laying down AK. |
That sounds extremely plausible. I really can't believe a shortstack would play AK like that in the first place. Not when he hits TPTK.
|
|
