Was I bluffed here in live $200 NL game |
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Posted Sat May 28, 2005 9:01 pm GMT by Aves
I was at a casino today and had about $150 in a $200 max buy in NL game(blinds $2/$5) when this hand came up. I hadn't seen a playable hand in about an hour and was dealt KdJd in middle position. It folded to me, and i raised it to $20. A guy 2 seats after me reraised it to a total of $50. The button called. The blinds folded and then i called the $30. Flop comes J97 rainbow. It gets checked around. Turn is a 6. It gets checked around again. River is another 6. I bet $30. The reraiser made a crying call and the button raised it to $130. I only had about $70 left but felt I couldn't really make the call anyway. Both I and the reraiser folded. The more I think about it, the more I think I got bluffed out. I think the preflop raise was probly too aggressive, and I probly shouldn't have made that $30 river bet. What are your guy's thoughts?
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Posted Sat May 28, 2005 10:08 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I'm thinking you need to willing to bet that flop to get information on your hand OR fold preflop. For the bluff part it is hard to tell without knowledge of the players and what cards they usually play.
In the circles I play an overpair in any position or overcards in late position would probably be bet on that flop.
I do think a set on the flop/boat on the river makes sense here, but it is hard to say anything without a bet on the flop.
Posted Sun May 29, 2005 1:09 pm GMT by howzit
w/40bb capped buy in, TPGK is a call.
Bet the flop, bet the turn, play smaller.
Posted Tue May 31, 2005 12:34 pm GMT by krakajak
The pf raise depends on the table. With a limper or 2 already in, I probably limp as well. First in, I probably raise to 3x BB. Of course, at some tables a raise that small practically guarantees you get f-ed with, but since the max buy-in was small, and you hadn't played a hand in a while, I figure a 3x BB raise should get some respect.
As far as calling the re-raise, I like that your call closed the action, or I would say fold. If the re-raiser is the type who will only come over the top with a premium hand, I would muck. If he's loose, I call.
For chrissakes, bet the flop! This is the flop you wanted, and now that you got it, you don't bet. I don't get this at all. I guess since you were out of position, you wanted to see what action develoiped behind you. But if you weren't going to bet this flop, you had no business calling the re-raise. Giving away a free card is the cardinal sin of poker. With $150 already in the pot, and $100 in front of you, you should go all-in here. same for the turn. As far as the river bet, your opponent was probably bluffing, but your little $30 bet screamed weakness, so this was a very smart play on his part.
Unless you are very rich, and $200 doesn't matter to you, I recommend you stay away from $200 NL games untill you get better, because if you keep playing like that you are gonna go broke real quick.
Posted Tue May 31, 2005 12:53 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Firstly, I'm curious about the raise and the call preflop. KJ suited is a good hand, but it's no monster by any means unless you hit the flop. What kind of read did you have on these players? Was that a standard preflop raise for that table? What hand did you have the reraiser and the caller in front of you on?
I have to agree that you definitely should have bet the flop. If someone comes over top, then you can gauge that they have an overpair or hit their set. By not betting, that guy (who could've easily had A 6 suited and thought it was good preflop since he had an over) could easily catch up to you. Also, by not betting, you gained no information from your opponents. If they call, they may be on a draw or hoping to spike their set. If they reraise, then you can put them on an overpair or set and get out of the way. By not betting, you allowed the player to bet you out of the pot later in the hand. Just my two cents.
Posted Tue May 31, 2005 1:20 pm GMT by Geno
You HAVE to bet that flop and then assuming it gets one caller, with no overcard on the turn I would say that all-in is the move.
Posted Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:47 am GMT by Aves
I think of myself as a pretty solid player but I have noticed one of my big weaknesses is playing out of position after getting reraised, especially if the pot is multiway. But my dilemma here is even if I bet small like 1/3 the pot, that will already be half my stack and I will be pot committed at that point. So if either of them does have an overpair or happened to spike a set, does that mean I'm just doomed and there will be no way I can get away from it? When faced with a tough decision like this, I usually err on the side of caution. Any thoughts?
Posted Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:34 am GMT by howzit
| Aves wrote: | | I think of myself as a pretty solid player but I have noticed one of my big weaknesses is playing out of position after getting reraised, especially if the pot is multiway. But my dilemma here is even if I bet small like 1/3 the pot, that will already be half my stack and I will be pot committed at that point. So if either of them does have an overpair or happened to spike a set, does that mean I'm just doomed and there will be no way I can get away from it? When faced with a tough decision like this, I usually err on the side of caution. Any thoughts? |
Getting reraised OOP is tough. If you think you are beat, then lay it down. On the flop, I'd decide if I was ahead or not and figure that if I was a head, I'd win the pot right now. So I'd bet. If I read the late person guy to actually be stiting on a hand, I'd check and see his reaction.
Also, you didn't describe the reraiser or button's stack size. Is he aggro? Loose? What speed have they been playing at the last few orbits?
If you're not willing to put some money into hte pot after hitting your card, I think stepping down and working out those kinks can only help. As a side note, aggressive players love players who like to lay down top/middle pair as a "smart fold".
BTW, i think you're beat.
Posted Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:22 pm GMT by Ben4040
You definitely have to bet the flop for information. By checking you have no way of knowing if you are in front or not. But I think the real error is calling such a large pre-flop raise with KJ, as was already stated. $50 is 10x BB, you would think he was representing a high pocket pair, but it would also depend on your read on that player.
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