Limping with Middle PP's in Loose Games |
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Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:46 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Playing in a loose $3/$6 live game. I'm two off the button and get dealt Pocket 10's. There are 4 limpers before me, and in this game, once people are in a pot, they do NOT fold for one more bet. So I end up just limping in as well (just to try something different, as I often raise with Pocket 10's, only to have to fold on flop or Turn). Button calls, BB checks.
Flop:
6  6  10 
Holy crap, I flopped a boat! It gets checked around to me, so I make one bet, which gets 4 callers.
Turn:
7
Again checked to me, and I have to bet. Button folds, BB calls, and a Middle guy raises. Here's the tricky part. I know BB will stay in for one more bet, but probably not 2. Why not give him a chance to improve so I can get a bigger pot on the river? So I just called, and so did BB.
River
J
Now I hope BB was on something like a flush draw. But he checks, MP bets, and I of course now raise. BB folds. MP just calls. Dang. But I still scoop a nice pot.
Question 1 is this: should I have raised pre-flop? 10's are not a real strong hand, but with this many people, I don't want to lay it down in Middle-late position. Do I have to raise to maximize value here? Too many times I've raised with TT to flop something like a Queen and an Ace, to which i must fold.
Question 2: Was I correct to slowplay on the turn? MP had 67, for 6's full of 7's. If I re-raise here, BB almost certainly folds, but MP may cap, both here and on the river. Overall, I think it averages out if he had just called to the same number of bb's I collect, but I'm curious how you guys would have played it here.
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Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:23 am GMT by Skribbles
I would have raised pre-flop. Not because of the strength of your hand, but to build a nice pot. I'll generally do that with any pocket pair with a bunch of limpers. You know that all of them are going to call, so why not make them put in that extra bet? In my opinion it really pays off in the long run when, in your case you flop a boat or even catch a set. Raising the turn is a "depends" raise I think. If you could put the guy on hand where he would call 2 more bets then definitly raise. If he is the type of guy that will call simply because he has already put money towards that next card, then raise. A flop like that doesn't usually get too much action so I would be tentative raising.
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:39 am GMT by snoogins47
| Skribbles wrote: | | I would have raised pre-flop. Not because of the strength of your hand, but to build a nice pot. I'll generally do that with any pocket pair with a bunch of limpers. You know that all of them are going to call, so why not make them put in that extra bet? In my opinion it really pays off in the long run when, in your case you flop a boat or even catch a set. Raising the turn is a "depends" raise I think. If you could put the guy on hand where he would call 2 more bets then definitly raise. If he is the type of guy that will call simply because he has already put money towards that next card, then raise. A flop like that doesn't usually get too much action so I would be tentative raising. |
Our opponent didn't raise until the turn. Sometimes this is a weird bluff, but most of the time a)the turn helped him, or b)he was slowplaying.
I think raising tends to be vastly superior to calling.
Raising preflop is pretty arguable, I think. And I don't feel like arguing, or taking a side.
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 am GMT by Loonbat
I will argue this and take a side ... raise the Ts!
I can't agree with raising ANY pp, as Skribbles suggests, because I'd even be dumping 2s and 3s in EP in a 3/6 game. But the moral of the story is right - you have to make them pay. If I were in LP with the hand, and if it were raised to me, I would reraise. While a single raise may not take most 3/6 players out of a pot, 2 bets (or 3 cold) may. Raise, reraise, narrow the field ...
It sounds like you played the hand right to keep the third caller in. I often find myself with this dilemna ... will my raise scare people off my nuts (that sounds bad), or in your case, winning hand. And when I have a boat, I will chance being outdraw (given the chance is so slim) if it means that opponents are pulling str8s and flushes. on the turn or river.
-Loon
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:03 am GMT by suitedaces84
Three bet the turn. It's likely that the BB is drawing, and your only chance to get money out of him is now. There's also a chance that check-raiser is semi-bluffing. Getting money out of these guys on the turn is much easier than it will be on the river. Also, building the pot on the turn will increase the range of hands you'll get action from on the river.
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:13 pm GMT by tylanthus
Raise Preflop. TT is a very good starting hand. Don't be results oriented...keep playing it aggressively.
3-bet the turn, if it is 4 handed then perhaps I think about going for overcalls but not here. Going for overcalls has less value here because you don't give MP the chance to cap (not to mention the chance that BB calls two bets cold).
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:37 pm GMT by Phil14312
Your pot equity with TT against a bunch of limpers should be enough to make you raise pre-flop. Sure you could have to dump it on the flop, but you could have made a bigger pot pre-flop when you hit a monster like you did.
Posted Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:43 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Thanks guys, you confirmed my suspicions, at least about the pre-flop play. I don't know why I sometimes know the right decision and yet still don't make it.
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