Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:15 am GMT by gol4pro
I was talking with my brother on the phone today... and he had a crazy idea.
We're pretty similar skill levels, although we have similar but different playing styles.
I try to finesse my opponents more, and dance around them to make them commit an extra dime.
He likes to ram and jam pots that he's ahead in.
However, we're both TAG, with a VPIP of 17-18, and preflop raise of 7%.
What would happen if you got your preflop aggression factor as high as your aggression on later streets? I know it sounds crazy, but if you simply stopped limping into pots, and either raised or folded, what would happen?
I gave it a try tonight at Pacific 1/2, and had pretty good success. Any thoughts? After all, if preflop is the most important stage of NL, why would you want a lower aggression factor?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:04 pm GMT by Phil14312
But with 4 callers to you with 6  8 on the button are you going to raise? Because I think calling is the best play here. But if you are talking about raising with things like ATo in EP, then that might have merit, but pretty soon you are going to get called down one way or another, so eventually you will have to showdown some big hands for this play to work.
But on the other hand, when you have shown down big hands and raise pre-flop. Usually you get more respect and if no one hits the flop hard a raise on the flop will win the pot.
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:18 pm GMT by Iron Butt
Well, given that a good tight aggressive player is supposed to be inclined towards preflop raises anyway, I'd think that NEVER calling preflop would have the negative effects of tending to kill your action and making you overinvested in marginal hands or leaving you playing too few hands.
But whatever works for you, if you can make it work great. Seems to me I see this all the time though... it usually works OK for a while and then people start playing back and eventually Mr. Superaggressiveman gets stung big time.
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:45 pm GMT by suitedaces84
What kind of raise are we talking about here? A mini raise? And what about completeing the SB, must we be raising from there too?
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:30 pm GMT by Phil14312
If you are a good post flop player (better than those at the table) you really want to be seeing a lot of cheap flops and then outplay your opponents on the later streets.
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:03 pm GMT by snoogins47
Preflop is FAR from the most important street in NLHE.
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:28 pm GMT by tylanthus
You make money off your opponents mistakes....most people make less mistakes pre-flop. I'd imagine there is more money to be made post-flop.
Just my opinion...I'm interested in hearing why you think pre-flop is most important.
Posted Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:54 pm GMT by gol4pro
I spoke wrongly in the first post.
What if you simply got your preflop aggression as high as your postflop aggression? A preflop aggression factor of 1.5 would be quite impressive IMO.
It would offer several advantages
a) You've got momentum having raised preflop
b) You're playing tight enough that a good amount of the time you will have a premium holding, which should make opponents more likely to continuation bets when you don't have premium hands.
c) You're going to be playing more heads up pots in position, which is always a good thing.
d) You're starting out as the aggressor... meaning your likely to stay that way at least passed the flop, giving you a higher pot equity.
Posted Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:59 pm GMT by Phil14312
| snoogins47 wrote: | | Preflop is FAR from the most important street in NLHE. |
Snoogins, can you explain this comment a little more to me. Why is it that mos pro's love taking flops and outplaying opponents from there instead of just shoving all-in preflop. In fact, from some of the discussions I've seen you make, you have defended 4x BB raises with something like 6  8 . I understand this play, but if you are agruing preflop is the most important street, wouldn't playing suited connectors to a big raise preflop be a bad play? I don't see your logic on this one.
**************Sorry see below, misread snoogins' post************
Posted Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:44 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Phil14312 wrote: | | ...but if you are agruing preflop is the most important street... |
No, he's saying the opposite. I think you misread his post.
Posted Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:48 pm GMT by Phil14312
Damnit sorry Snoogins you are right Sean I definately misread the post.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:35 am GMT by howzit
Playing fast on all streets will make people come in w/marginal hands and play back at you. Improve your hand reading skills and playing fast on all streets will be much easier.
Try playing live.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:26 am GMT by ShoelessJoe
| snoogins47 wrote: | | Preflop is FAR from the most important street in NLHE. |
Thank you. I was reading this post and was baffled by the idea that Pre-Flop is the most important street in NLHE.
As ESPN puts it as they explain HOW TO PLAY TEXAS HOLDEM every goddamn time... 'The flop is where you decide if you're in, our out'
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:33 am GMT by Soup_dog
Even though preflop isnt the most important part of a hand, it tends to drive the hand. If you establish control preflop, usually you have more control over the betting after the flop. I win many a pot on a missed flop just by putting a reasonable "continuation bet" out there.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:07 am GMT by howzit
| Quote: | | I win many a pot on a missed flop just by putting a reasonable "continuation bet" out there. |
This works until good players see you doing it twice on a non-threatining board and then decide to play back.
Pick your spots.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:51 am GMT by Soup_dog
| howzit wrote: | | Quote: | | I win many a pot on a missed flop just by putting a reasonable "continuation bet" out there. |
This works until good players see you doing it twice on a non-threatining board and then decide to play back.
Pick your spots. |
True. Very true.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:12 pm GMT by snoogins47
| Soup_dog wrote: | | howzit wrote: | | Quote: | | I win many a pot on a missed flop just by putting a reasonable "continuation bet" out there. |
This works until good players see you doing it twice on a non-threatining board and then decide to play back.
Pick your spots. |
True. Very true. |
If you're not betting at a whole lot of flops after raising preflop, against these observant opponents, I sincerely hope that you're check-raising or checking behind when you actually have a hand fairly frequently.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:55 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Very frequently. Actually the last couple of weeks I have been winning very consistently by taking control of the betting with marginal hands and driving people out, and then later destroying them when I have a big hand and they are trying to "cure" me of my aggression.
The last two months have been, by far, my most successful at the ring games.
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:18 pm GMT by p3nguin
I am still a fish but I find I am the most sucessful when I don't do anything consistantly. If I can keep them guessing I can bluff and slow play more effectively when the situation calls for it.
Just my experience.
|
|
