SnG, always all in on AA? |
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Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:55 am GMT by p3nguin
Last night at a SnG I saw AA get busted by KK in the first hand. The AA went all in and KK called.
I made a comment about how I would have a hard time going all in on the first hand with anything and the guy who got bounced said that pushing in is automatic with AA.
Is this true? I know AA is the best starting hand you can get, and I could see pushing it in while at a ring game because over time you will win, but it is my feeling that if you are at risk of losing your entire stack in a tourney then I want to at least see the flop first.
Am I playing to conservatively?
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Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:06 pm GMT by Always_Bored
so your saying you would fold if someone went all in ahead of you and you are holding AA? I agree though that I would not want to put all my chips at risk on the first hand but I would if they put me all in while im holding AA. I just wouldnt call it automatic that i go all in when im holding AA. A sizeable raise yes, all in no.
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:15 pm GMT by p3nguin
| Always_Bored wrote: | | so your saying you would fold if someone went all in ahead of you and you are holding AA? |
What are the odds of AA getting busted after 7 cards are dealt? Do they justify a 2:1 return when if you are wrong you can''t reload?
I don't know the answers to these questions so I am not trying to be a smart arse, just looking for some advice.
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:25 pm GMT by Always_Bored
| p3nguin wrote: | | Always_Bored wrote: | | so your saying you would fold if someone went all in ahead of you and you are holding AA? |
What are the odds of AA getting busted after 7 cards are dealt? Do they justify a 2:1 return when if you are wrong you can''t reload? |
you are in the lead against ANY hand. I would get all my money in if i could. I just would not see aces then "automatically" go all in.
Aces against kings will win 81.3% of the time assuming all 4 cards are different suit. Aces against 6,7suited is 77%. Aces against 10,Jsuited AND 6,7 suited is still 57.9%.
If your too afraid to be knocked out of a tourney holding the best hand then your not going to win to many tourneys.
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:46 pm GMT by krakajak
Never fold aces preflop. If someone puts you all in with them, be happy.
At low level SNG's, I never fold kings either, and almost never fold queens.
As far as AA being an automatic push... if you think someone will call your push, then push. If not, bet as much as you think an opponent will call.
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:47 pm GMT by Loonbat
If I'm shortstack in a tournie with AA, I'll push and hopefully get a caller (just one is preferable). If someone pushes all-in ahead of me, I'll call. Otherwise, I'm not pushing all-in on AA to initiate.
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:09 pm GMT by snoogins47
| p3nguin wrote: | Is this true? I know AA is the best starting hand you can get, and I could see pushing it in while at a ring game because over time you will win, but it is my feeling that if you are at risk of losing your entire stack in a tourney then I want to at least see the flop first.
Am I playing to conservatively? |
Yes.
Posted Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:52 am GMT by Muck
No one wants to be the first loser but look at it this way the guy that gets knocked out first and the guy that gets knocked out 1 from the money go home with the same payout. Don’t get me wrong you should always consider the status of the tournament but never play a hand incorrectly because you’re still getting comfy.
If the blinds are low I wont lead with an all-in from EP with AA, I’ll just raise significantly aiming for a single caller, then more all-in most of the time on the flop. If I’m in LP and the pot has a lot of callers or a raiser I might go all-in depending on the size blinds. If I’m in LP and only up against the blinds I might risk a slow play, but TBH I hate this move.
| 3nguin wrote: |
Is this true? I know AA is the best starting hand you can get, and I could see pushing it in while at a ring game because over time you will win, but it is my feeling that if you are at risk of losing your entire stack in a tourney then I want to at least see the flop first.
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Why see the flop? I’m not maths expert but the flop is more likely to improve their hand than yours, so it makes sense to get as much in the pot as possible when your odds of winning are at their highest.
Posted Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:47 am GMT by Loonbat
| Muck wrote: | | If I’m in LP and the pot has a lot of callers or a raiser I might go all-in depending on the size blinds. |
Actually, this is an interesting point, one which I take into account. If I'm seeing a few callers in front of me, I won't do the standard 4 x BB raise - I'll generally do double this. If I'm seeing a raiser, I'll push back about 3 or 4x whatever the raiser bet. I still don't want to push all-in, because I do want one caller. If the bet I intend to makes leaves me with no chip leverage, then I'll push all-in.
-Loon
Posted Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:41 pm GMT by zeroswarm
Well perhaps I might be over aggressive, but with AA I don't normally think too hard before pushing all in.
In tournament play u have to take the odd gamble if your trying to actually win the thing. I can't think of a better gamble than shoving all in pre flop with AA...
Posted Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:17 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If you get all your money in pre-flop with another player with AA, do so by all means. I don't know why some guys insist on just pushing all-in instead of making a decent raise to lure a caller with the intent of going all-in on a favorable board. Sometimes I just want to say, "you know, you don't HAVE to put all your money in before you see a flop."
Still, you're at least a 4-to-1 favorite heads up against any other hand with Aces. If someone pushes all-in, I'd be happy to call them.
Posted Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:08 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Pocket aces for dummies: 1/3 of your stack preflop, the rest on the flop if the flop doesn't scare the hell out of you (also if you hit your set feel free to slow down). This way they'll only be calling a pot size bet on the flop, who can say no to numbers that tasty? Of course this is dependant on the blind to stack ratio, whether there has already been a preflop raise etc...
Posted Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:06 am GMT by AHBrownell
You want to go all in with AA and you want 1 caller. However, it is unlikely that you will gain a caller with AA if you go all-in right away (especially in early position). However, a smart play is to bet a normal raise say 4-6x the BB. If you are lucky a player with KK, QQ, AK, AQ, KQ, etc will raise and then you can push all-in or reraise significantly. You want a single player in the pot with you because you have the very best odds (80% to win) that you can have pre-flop. You are winning right from the get go. However the more players in the pot the worse your AA odds get. If all 10 players went all in, AA wins roughly 30% of the time - not bad odds for an instant first place finish, but you'd rather win 4/5 times versus 1 player and have a chip lead the rest of the tourney.
The way I see this is if a player goes all-in and has no callers this is an easy call. If 6+ players do so - although hands do not get better than this, I might fold because you would be guaranteed a top finish, when 5+ people bust out...
Posted Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:50 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | I made a comment about how I would have a hard time going all in on the first hand with anything |
Wow dude, they don't get much tighter than you. What if there were 4 people left, would you still fold your AA preflop?
I don't care if it's a $5 online sit n go or the very first hand of the WSOP Main Event, I won't hesitate to get as many chips into the pot preflop as I can.
Posted Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:11 am GMT by traz
| p3nguin wrote: | and I could see pushing it in while at a ring game because over time you will win, but it is my feeling that if you are at risk of losing your entire stack in a tourney then I want to at least see the flop first.
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As others have said, if you can get all-in with AA before the flop, be happy.
I found this particular comment ironic though. In general (not necessarily AA, but other hands like KK and QQ, but it applies to AA as well), I'm MUCH more happy to go all-in preflop in a tournament, than at a cash game. At a tournament, the blinds go up, and you have to double up, you can't sit there and wait until you make a good hand on the flop. But at a cash game, I can sit there and wait all day long. I'd much rather go all-in preflop at a tournament, then at a cash game.
Posted Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:31 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | But at a cash game, I can sit there and wait all day long. |
Being hesitant with QQ and depending on the opposition, maybe even KK, but with AA why hesitate to go all in preflop in a cash game? You can wait all day long but what else are you waiting for?
If you're afraid to go all in with AA in a cash game, the only reason I can think of is playing with scared money.
Posted Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:21 am GMT by Muck
I don’t think he’s saying he wouldn’t risk it all with AA. I think he’s just discussing the all-in move in general and how it’s roll can differ slightly between tournaments and cash games.
Posted Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:12 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Personally if I get an AA early in a tournament then position affects how I play it. If I am in EP then I might just call and hope someone comes with a raise so I can reraise. In later postion on an unraised hand I am going to make it about 4-5xBB to go. If there has been a raiser previous to my turn then I am going to at least double their bet.
Post flop. If the flop doesn't look scarry to me then I am going all-in. If it does look scarry then I will put out a bet half the size of the pot as a feeler bet to see if someone might think they have a better hand.
Posted Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:23 pm GMT by traz
| Muck wrote: | | I don’t think he’s saying he wouldn’t risk it all with AA. I think he’s just discussing the all-in move in general and how it’s roll can differ slightly between tournaments and cash games. |
What muck said 
Posted Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:06 am GMT by Cyberhwk
| Nut Flush wrote: |
Being hesitant with QQ and depending on the opposition, maybe even KK, but with AA why hesitate to go all in preflop in a cash game? You can wait all day long but what else are you waiting for? |
But what kind of hands are you hoping going to get callers with when you push in ring? If someone wants to commit their entire stack without seeing a card I ASSUME they have a monster. By all means play it fast, but I think you'd scare off too much action pushing pre-flop.
Posted Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:38 pm GMT by bluef0x
damn, no 'fold preflop' comment yet?
Posted Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:26 pm GMT by Ciso_B
im a little stunned at this thread. AA is the best hand pre flop. If i get i get a caller or someone pushes me in, I am well happy ! true u lose sometimes, but how do u expect to win??
Posted Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:10 am GMT by TheSalche
| Ciso_B wrote: | | im a little stunned at this thread. AA is the best hand pre flop. If i get i get a caller or someone pushes me in, I am well happy ! true u lose sometimes, but how do u expect to win?? |
i second the motion ...
i hate to be a douche, but come on, if its the best hand preflop why not get it in preflop if you can? not only that, you're an 80% favorite or better against ANY hand
let me give you the ONE instance you fold AA preflop
final table MTT, six players left, real money between sixth and second is substantial. 5 players have 1000 chips, 1 player has 3000 chips. big stack goes all in from UTG, all 4 other players call and you're in the BB with AA
folding preflop here with AA is okay, any other time is idiotic
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