Posted Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:44 pm GMT by blaise
Tell me if I played this right...please! I'm still reeling!
It was 1/2 no limit holdem at Wynn Hotel. I had been sitting down at the table for about 2hrs holding my own. I was up, I was down, but basically even after a $200 buy-in.
I get A/K off suit in the hole, and think, yeah! I raise $15 pre-flop. This was a normal amount of raising it appeared, and I just went with the flow. I get 4 callers!
Five players.
Flop come out 8, 9, 9, rainbow. The table checks all around, and I have the button. I bet $60 hoping to push all fishers out. I get two callers. Next card came out a 10. I push $120 in, and I get the same two callers! The river comes out a 5. Helps no one. The cards turn up. One player had pocket Kings. The other has a 6/7 diamonds to make a STRAIGHT to 10!!!
I obviously did not scare anyone away with my betting. Did I play this wrong? Please help! I think I could have checked 4th Street, but that would have been a concession of weakness. I was basically sandbagged.
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Posted Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:05 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If you didn't scare anyone on the flop, what made you think your turn bet would force them out? AK is a good hand, but it's not bullet-proof. The guy with 67s made a mistake calling the $60 and the KK made a mistake by not pushing all-in right there, but it happens from time to time. Also, I think 7.5x the BB is a little high to bet with AK. I'd usually bet about $8-$10 with AK in a 1/2 NL game.
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:52 am GMT by howzit
Flop $75: w/that flop it's hit or miss. Bet $35 and you'll get your answer.
w/4 callers, did you feel that flop missed everybody?
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:53 am GMT by howzit
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Also, I think 7.5x the BB is a little high to bet with AK. I'd usually bet about $8-$10 with AK in a 1/2 NL game. |
If $15 is the standard opening for the table, then I see no problem w/it.
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:56 am GMT by BeerWench13
I don't mind the raise, and I like the bet on the flop since you raised preflop. However, having 2 callers, I think I would've slowed down on the turn instead of pushing again. I would have to think that one of your opponents either had a 9, pocket 8's or an open-ended straight draw. Even if they only had an 8, you have to catch to beat them.
Just my opinion of course. But then again, I personally hate big slick and have no problem getting away from it if I miss the flop.
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:23 pm GMT by ViperX883
I agree. In a multiway pot if you miss the flop with AK you need to slow down. AK is not that powerful when you have missed the board. It is a hand that you should get away from in that situation.
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:54 pm GMT by NickFlynn
Check-fold the turn.
I think the flop bet was ok, but once two guys call a pot sized bet, you have to figure you are behind, and maybe way behind.
- Nick
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:13 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| howzit wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Also, I think 7.5x the BB is a little high to bet with AK. I'd usually bet about $8-$10 with AK in a 1/2 NL game. |
If $15 is the standard opening for the table, then I see no problem w/it. |
Just because something is the table standard doesn't mean you should do it as well. Someone may raise to $15 with KJ because it's the table "standard," but that's a bad play overall. To raise 7.5x the BB, I think you need a big pair to justify it. Granted, AK is a very good hand, but I like to see a flop with it before I stick myself, personally.
Posted Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:35 pm GMT by Phil14312
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | howzit wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Also, I think 7.5x the BB is a little high to bet with AK. I'd usually bet about $8-$10 with AK in a 1/2 NL game. |
If $15 is the standard opening for the table, then I see no problem w/it. |
Just because something is the table standard doesn't mean you should do it as well. Someone may raise to $15 with KJ because it's the table "standard," but that's a bad play overall. To raise 7.5x the BB, I think you need a big pair to justify it. Granted, AK is a very good hand, but I like to see a flop with it before I stick myself, personally. |
I go with the standard raise. If it happens to be 6-8x the BB, so be it, it just costs more to see flops relative to the size of the blinds. If everybody is consistently raising to 15 bucks and you make it 10 then you are going to get 6 callers at most tables at these stakes, is that what you want with AK?
I think the important thing at these tables is to go with the standard raise no matter what cards you are raising with. Open raise in LP to 15 bucks with KJ, just make sure to open raise with AA as well. That way, they can't get a read from your bet sizes what type of hand you have.
Check/fold the turn as well, you are obviously beat and if you aren't just about half the deck gives someone a card to beat Ace high.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:53 am GMT by NickFlynn
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Just because something is the table standard doesn't mean you should do it as well. Someone may raise to $15 with KJ because it's the table "standard," but that's a bad play overall. To raise 7.5x the BB, I think you need a big pair to justify it. Granted, AK is a very good hand, but I like to see a flop with it before I stick myself, personally. |
I don't think I could disagree more. If the standard raise at the table is $15 and you come in for less, you are just begging to get re-raised.
You need to adapt your preflop raises to what the table standard is. The only time that you don't is if the standard raise is pretty small, and always gets a lot of callers, you might try to establish a larger raise as the "standard" raise.
Also, if you routinely open raise AK less than you do TT-AA, you are going to get torched by good players if they spend much time playing with you.
- Nick
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:32 pm GMT by howzit
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | To raise 7.5x the BB, I think you need a big pair to justify it. |
aie, you must as well turn your hand over.
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