Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:45 pm GMT by howzit
Since i rarely put up hands, here's a boring one.
Me: $900
Villain: $600
Villain2: $225
folded to me on the button. i open $15 w/AA (I open raise a lot)
Villain in SB calls, short stack makes it $75.
Action?
reads: Villain2 is steaming. Generally LAGGY preflop but straight-forward post-flop. I know he has a hand here. Villain1 is a high-limit player playing down cuz this is the only game running, he's tricky.
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Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:55 pm GMT by Dave B
I likely reraise min ($60 more?), if he is indeed steaming, he may play back at you right there. If the other player has KK QQ JJ AK, he may play along too.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:00 pm GMT by NickFlynn
I'd prefer to lose the small blind, and there is probably a pretty good chance Steamy is going to call me, so I'm reraising to $225.
- Nick
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:08 pm GMT by p3nguin
I agree with Nick. Put steamy all in and watch him call.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:36 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
All-in. Nothing fancy. If he folds, that's a free $75, and if he calls, you're a big favorite to win a few hundred more.
Those are huge stacks for 1/2 NL! 
Of course, at my cardroom, they cap the buy-in for NL at $100, so there's rarely anyone with more than $500 or so at the table.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:43 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Those are huge stacks for 1/2 NL! |
Agreed. What's the max buy in for those 1/2 tables?
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:55 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I'd prefer to lose the small blind, and there is probably a pretty good chance Steamy is going to call me, so I'm reraising to $225 |
Yep, that's what I'd do.
| Quote: | | Those are huge stacks for 1/2 NL! |
Not really if the players have been sitting for a while. When I was in AC after about 6 hours myself and another player were at $900 & $550 respectively. He bought in for $200 and I bought in for $120.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:56 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I fold. He's probably gonna suck out on me anyway. 
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:02 pm GMT by Soup_dog
You would think with 400 posts under my belt I would know the answer to this... but what the heck does LAGGY mean?
As for the play... those dollar figures would have me sweating, but I would push it to $250. I wouldn't be surprised if both called though.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:05 pm GMT by NickFlynn
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | I fold. He's probably gonna suck out on me anyway. |
That was my original answer, but I didn't have the guts to post it.
- Nick
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:06 pm GMT by snoogins47
I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:26 pm GMT by Skribbles
| Soup_dog wrote: | You would think with 400 posts under my belt I would know the answer to this... but what the heck does LAGGY mean?
|
Loose Aggresive I believe.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:40 pm GMT by p3nguin
| Soup_dog wrote: | You would think with 400 posts under my belt I would know the answer to this... but what the heck does LAGGY mean?
As for the play... those dollar figures would have me sweating, but I would push it to $250. I wouldn't be surprised if both called though. |
Isn't that what you want when you are holding AA?
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:12 pm GMT by NickFlynn
| snoogins47 wrote: | | I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops. |
I think this is probably the right answer. If you call, the SB will almost certainly call, getting better than 2:1 on his money. You will have position after the flop.
- Nick
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:24 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| snoogins47 wrote: | | I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops. |
I'd just rather not give him the chance to catch.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:34 pm GMT by howzit
calling was the first thing that came to mind. Afterall, i'm more interested in $600 than the $225.
But given that villain1 is OOP and would be whip-sawed between the two raisers, i didn't see him putting in his money in post-flop w/out a hand that could beat mine. (too cautious?)
i just realized because he's whipsawed he's more likely to play his hand straight forward than try to move either one of us off our hand
Guessing that an ace/king on the flop would scare away any customers, I just pushed my stack figuring he'd call getting 2:1. Amazingly, villain2 thought for a while and mucked. f*ck me.
We're good friends and later he told me that in order for me to come over the top and know he'd be committed, i would show up w/a big hand more than 33% of the time. Of course, he knows that I know this, I could easily push w/AQs or something disgusting like that. And yes, i've done things like that when I thought somebody was raising very light on me.
FWIW, he said he mucked tens.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:39 pm GMT by howzit
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Those are huge stacks for 1/2 NL! |
Agreed. What's the max buy in for those 1/2 tables? |
1-2NL = $500
5-5NL - $2000
10-20NL = uncapped
100bb buy-ins SUCK.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:46 pm GMT by howzit
| Dave B wrote: | | I likely reraise min ($60 more?), if he is indeed steaming, he may play back at you right there. If the other player has KK QQ JJ AK, he may play along too. |
this is an interesting idea. If he doesn't see right through that and calls, he's stuck in this pot. But, i don't think i'd ever do that w/JJ, AK or hands that would like to take a flop.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:53 pm GMT by howzit
| snoogins47 wrote: | | I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops. |
Me too. I love getting everybody's money.
But let's say i call $60 so villain1 is looking at $165:60, plus $500ish in the back. he has good implied odds but i'll have position on him the entire way.
Theoritcally let's say it's action flop: J  10  9
and he leads. . . .that would suck.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:01 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | All-in. Nothing fancy. If he folds, that's a free $75, and if he calls, you're a big favorite to win a few hundred more.
Those are huge stacks for 1/2 NL!
Of course, at my cardroom, they cap the buy-in for NL at $100, so there's rarely anyone with more than $500 or so at the table. |
100% agree. All in - Much better chance of winning vs one player rather than 2. I would want it heads up - If both call, that is OK also, but would prefer heads up.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:41 pm GMT by Magra
So, what was the outcome?
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:29 pm GMT by TheSalche
if hes aggressive preflop, cant we assume he may be trying to defend his BB?
he may have interperted your play as a position raise, were you showing down a lot of good hands during the course of the night, or were you stealing a lot of pots?
if thats the case, i agree with Dave, min raise is good to scare off the SB but let the BB call away more of his chips
if you have had a strong table imade and shown down a lot of good hands, id push to a bigger raise ... i like $200 or so
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:19 pm GMT by snoogins47
| howzit wrote: | | snoogins47 wrote: | | I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops. |
Me too. I love getting everybody's money.
But let's say i call $60 so villain1 is looking at $165:60, plus $500ish in the back. he has good implied odds but i'll have position on him the entire way.
Theoritcally let's say it's action flop: J 10 9
and he leads. . . .that would suck. |
That would, but when the bigger stack knows that the shortstack is steaming and you don't take initiative preflop, and the bigger stacked villain flops top pair, you likely make a lot of money. The BB is ccommitting himself and steaming, so I don't think the SB is going to be checking to the shortstack a good deal of the time. This of course sucks when the BB outflops you and you throw your stack at him, but I think flat calling here gets you a lot more money from lower pairs and whatever random hands might flop top pair. It's an interesting discussion, but the raise seems sizeable enough to me that the increased deception is probably better, as it's still what, a little over 10% of the bigger stacked guy's stack? I dunno about this for sure though, it seems pretty close. Were the raise smaller, I think I'd re-raise much more often, and were it larger, I think I'd be much more apt to call, for obvious reasons. As it stands, I'm somewhat torn, especially because a high limit player playing down might randomly throw his chips in preflop just for kicks if you're known to be aggressive and you re-raise ;P
You mention that you have position on him, which is true, but I think much of the time your relative position is actually a bad thing. SB checks, BB shoves, you clearly still have an overpair. Call or shove? If you call and SB pushes, how badly do your balls hurt when you make the call?
On the other hand, you're probably often not going to get the SB to come along anyway preflop. And when he does, he's still probably not ouflopping you enough to really hurt you that badly, especially given that he's more likely to overplay a hand you've got smoked after the flop if you call.
There's no doubt you're going to lose the pot more, and be in a lot of sketchier situations post flop by flat calling... I dunno.
| Quote: | | 100% agree. All in - Much better chance of winning vs one player rather than 2. I would want it heads up - If both call, that is OK also, but would prefer heads up. |
An All-In might well be the best play, but if you push all your chips in the middle with AA, and you don't want the third player to call, I hope you're not a big fan of money.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:27 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| snoogins47 wrote: | | An All-In might well be the best play, but if you push all your chips in the middle with AA, and you don't want the third player to call, I hope you're not a big fan of money. |
Dude, where the hell have you been? Winning money went out with powdered wigs. It's all about winning the most hands now--and doing everything humanly possible to avoid the dreaded bad beat.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:47 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| 1988 TR wrote: | | An All-In might well be the best play, but if you push all your chips in the middle with AA, and you don't want the third player to call, I hope you're not a big fan of money. |
Actually, I am a big fan of money. That is why I want that third player OUT. Are you saying you want him in?
With the stack of the guy who bet $75, I do not see him folding for an all in raise.
If two people call with hands like QQ, 88 - I'm not that happy. Or how about KQs and 910s?
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:18 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | Actually, I am a big fan of money. That is why I want that third player OUT. Are you saying you want him in? |
Yes.
| 1988 TR wrote: |
With the stack of the guy who bet $75, I do not see him folding for an all in raise. |
I don't either, but that's good.
| 1988 TR wrote: |
If two people call with hands like QQ, 88 - I'm not that happy. |
Why not? I would be.
| 1988 TR wrote: | | Or how about KQs and 910s? |
Okay I'd be less happy, but I still want them both in.
As the great Bill Fillmaff put it: in poker we make decisions based on our expected value or EV. Your EV has two basic factors. The % of the time you will win and the amount you will win. If the amount you will win triples or better (as it likely will when deepstacked Villian calls) and the % of the time you win decreases by a factor less than 3 you stand to gain. Even if deepstacked villian calls the % of the time you will win does not decrease by anywhere near a factor of 3. This is the crude version, I'm sure snoogins will do a better job explaining this.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:31 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Yah, I hear where you are coming from. I am working through the math right now - It really depends on what they have. If you are 60% to beat them both (Not sure it gets that low no matter what they have) you are break even with a heads up hand of 90%. If you are better than 60% against the two and less than 90% against the one, then it would be better to have them both in.
So, it does look like you would want them both in all in pre flop. But what if you only call the $75 and get them both in and then get all in on the flop (You will have a really hard time ever folding AA). Then I don't think you are getting the right odds at all. Because now they can fold the hands that miss & only call the all in when they have you beat or are on a big draw. This is why I think you need to be all in pre flop.
If you are against more than 2 players, it gets even worse.
And this is just considering it is a cash game. If it is a tournament, without a doubt in the world, I would want to be heads up. In a tourney, you definitely need to limit your chances of busting out - It's all about survival. The only exception to this would be if you are short stacked & think you can survive longer by getting the 3rd player so that you can greatly increase your stack size.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:52 pm GMT by howzit
I am giving up equity by pushing, no doubt. But, i'm looking at massive reverse implied odds here.
(1)It goes SB check, BB push, call, then check-raise all-in. AAAHHH!!!
(2) it goes SB bets, and then BB pushes. WTF?
In my mind, i'm going to win the least while winning and lose the most when I'm behind. Thus, I pushed hoping for the BB to call w/2:1.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:05 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I don't think the pre flop bet was even enough. I bet $15 and get 2 callers, I am very worried because I am going to have an extremely hard time laying down AA and I'm putting my entire stack in jeopardy.
How many times have you laid down AA? I know for me, it is not very many. Maybe when the board has come KKQ and I'm not very invested (I must have done something wrong, maybe slow played?) & someone really wants to push it or say 3 hearts and I have all black.
So my strategy is getting the money in pre flop & limiting the players. I do not want to see 5 callers vs my aces.
Posted Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:46 pm GMT by snoogins47
| 1988 TR wrote: | Yah, I hear where you are coming from. I am working through the math right now - It really depends on what they have. If you are 60% to beat them both (Not sure it gets that low no matter what they have) you are break even with a heads up hand of 90%. If you are better than 60% against the two and less than 90% against the one, then it would be better to have them both in.
So, it does look like you would want them both in all in pre flop. But what if you only call the $75 and get them both in and then get all in on the flop (You will have a really hard time ever folding AA). Then I don't think you are getting the right odds at all. Because now they can fold the hands that miss & only call the all in when they have you beat or are on a big draw. This is why I think you need to be all in pre flop.
If you are against more than 2 players, it gets even worse.
And this is just considering it is a cash game. If it is a tournament, without a doubt in the world, I would want to be heads up. In a tourney, you definitely need to limit your chances of busting out - It's all about survival. The only exception to this would be if you are short stacked & think you can survive longer by getting the 3rd player so that you can greatly increase your stack size. |
You're only screwed if you assume: A)That you will only get action when AA is beat, and b)you will never lose when you get outflopped.
The part that makes me hate this situation is that by calling, your hopes are that either one overplays a hand postflop, and as Howzit said, you're going to be calling/pushing almost on every flop before the SB acts.
Basically, I think the most important factor here is: what sort of respect would the SB give you post flop? The most common scenario I can see here is when the SB flops a top-pair type hand, and checks to the shortie who shoves, and you obviously call/push. Is he the sort that will try to look you up here, or no? Because if he is, I think you've actually got a healthy dose of positive implied odds. If not, who knows. That question I can't answer, without knowing this fool, and also, knowing what he thinks of you. I also think it's pretty impressive that your opponent could narrow your hand range down that successfully despite the "lag" image you said you have. You might want to make some 3-bet preflop plays on this guy in the near future
BTW, I want to shoot whoever started perpetuating this "all about survival" thing in tournaments. It's true, in the sense that you should avoid close gambles for your whole stack, and that you should wait for larger edges, when you are a better player than your table/the field. And clearly while in the money, just moving up a spot can make you some cash. But increasing your stack increases your chances of winning. More chance of winning = more money on average. Survival should only make you pass on a positive expectation play when you believe that on average, you will make more real money by passing, or if squeaking into the next spot means you can pay your rent this month.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:31 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I don't think the hand is that complicated - You push all in & I don't think he lets his hand go given the $75 raise. I would take that heads up anytime. If I win I'm plus $225. If I let a 3rd person take the pot, I lose my $225 and the other $225 I would have won. That is a $450 swing.
And if you don't think tournaments are all abouot survival, keep trying to get the whole table to get in the hand against your AA. Best of luck to you. 
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:34 pm GMT by snoogins47
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:26 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I'm sorry. Want to play some heads up?
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:28 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | And if you don't think tournaments are all abouot survival, keep trying to get the whole table to get in the hand against your AA. Best of luck to you. |
I find it easier to survive when I have more chips. It sounds like you've seen Chapter 2 of Bill Fillmaff's secret system a few too many times.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:31 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | And if you don't think tournaments are all abouot survival, keep trying to get the whole table to get in the hand against your AA. Best of luck to you. |
I find it easier to survive when I have more chips. It sounds like you've seen Chapter 2 of Bill Fillmaff's secret system a few too many times. |
I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. Maybe I've read too many books and played too much poker.
A lot of people seem to think they have more talent than they know what to do with. If you want to back it up with $$, then I'm all for it.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:40 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. |
It's a good thing there are only two, one of which is shortstacked.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:42 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. |
It's a good thing there are only two, one of which is shortstacked. |
I take it that is a no?
lol
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:48 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. |
It's a good thing there are only two, one of which is shortstacked. |
I take it that is a no?
lol |
Great argument. I didn't even realize that. Looks like you win again. Well done.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:49 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. |
It's a good thing there are only two, one of which is shortstacked. |
I take it that is a no?
lol |
Great argument. I didn't even realize that. Looks like you win again. Well done. |
Seriously, I think you have all the angles down. Why not?
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:39 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I find it easier to survive if a ton of people are not up against my aces. Maybe I've read too many books and played too much poker. |
I have to agree with this. At most, I only want two opponents up against my aces. Maybe I've just had mine cracked too many times and I'm gunshy, but I don't want 5-6 people in the hand postflop when I have those. Hell, I had them cracked heads up last week in a tournament by 9's. It happens, but if I had it to do over again, I'd still have pushed all-in preflop just to increase the odds of my aces holding up.
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:15 am GMT by Dave B
I dont get this.
Cash game right?
If I have 9 callers with AA I am all in. Even if I have a 20% chance of winning 9x my bet, those are WINNING ODDS.
Playing poker is about making correct decisions and putting the odds in your favor. I had 2 hands @ 5/10 that people bitched at me about. One hand was AK suited, the other was A4. Both times I capped the flop against someone who raised preflop. AK was 4 to the flush 15 outs to his JJ overpair. A4 was 14 outs to their QQ w/ 4 to the flush, one overcard and a pair of 4s. They both berated my for "chasing" or "overvaluing" when in both cases I was the favorite w/ that flop.
With AA I want to milk the most I can preflop, so that is why I raise min or possibly even smooth call $75 and see a flop. If I get outdrawn, then so be it. They need to SERIOUSLY hit their flop to beat me.
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:57 am GMT by 1988 TR
| Dave B wrote: | I dont get this.
Cash game right?
If I have 9 callers with AA I am all in. Even if I have a 20% chance of winning 9x my bet, those are WINNING ODDS.
|
Yes, if you are ALL IN. By only smooth calling, you are not all in. By letting them see a flop for cheaper, you are giving them odds - They gon't have to hit it all on the flop - Just like your A4 example above.
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:03 am GMT by BeerWench13
Actually, I was referring to tournament play in my last post.
In a cash game, it would depend.
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:20 pm GMT by Phil14312
| 1988 TR wrote: | | Dave B wrote: | I dont get this.
Cash game right?
If I have 9 callers with AA I am all in. Even if I have a 20% chance of winning 9x my bet, those are WINNING ODDS.
|
Yes, if you are ALL IN. By only smooth calling, you are not all in. By letting them see a flop for cheaper, you are giving them odds - They gon't have to hit it all on the flop - Just like your A4 example above. |
But TR I think a major point here is that if you let them hit their hands just hard enough, but your overpair is still good, then you can stack off a lot of opponents here. Lets say SB has AK, do you re-raise him, screaming AA or KK and let him safely fold pre-flop, or do you let him catch a K on the flop and since you only called, he discounts AA or KK? When that happens you make much more $$$, the point of this whole thing.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:55 am GMT by howzit
| Phil14312 wrote: |
But TR I think a major point here is that if you let them hit their hands just hard enough, but your overpair is still good, then you can stack off a lot of opponents here. |
Guys, this hand isn't very complicated. SB (who is a high-limit player and shits on my bankroll) is going to play any two to break me. Also, I wouldn't see how he can call and close the action w/AK, KK, AQ when he's OOP against a BB reraise and then I call. AQ/AJ is most likely folding here. AK maybe, maybe not.
Once I call the $75 reraise, SB will not put any money in w/a top pair hand. You guys are getting lost in math calculations here.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:37 am GMT by 1988 TR
OK, re-reading the original post, I thought the poster had $225, so the $75 bet would easily call the all-in raise (Another $150). Now I see that the AA hand had $900 and the whole table covered, so it is bit different.....
I probably re-raise $100 pre flop. Pretty sure I would get a call here & vs an aggressive player, he might even re-raise me back all in.
I want to be heads up vs the $225 - He's steaming & I can't see him folding after putting $75 out there.
I don't really want the $600 stack in for only $60 more. If he is going to crack my aces, he needs to pay for it.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:03 pm GMT by Geno
| Dave B wrote: | | With AA I want to milk the most I can preflop, so that is why I raise min or possibly even smooth call $75 and see a flop. If I get outdrawn, then so be it. They need to SERIOUSLY hit their flop to beat me. |
I agree with this (and the post on page 1) and would NOT have started throwing all my chips in. If you raise the minimum, the SB may call this or just get out the way (more likely) while the short stack is either going to flat call and leave himself with not much to play with or go over the top of you all-in. Either way, you could not be more in the driving seat and with almost $150 in pre-flop, you are going to call if he bets the flop or set him all-in if he doesn't (assuming you check). Make sense?
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:16 pm GMT by howzit
| howzit wrote: | | Dave B wrote: | | I likely reraise min ($60 more?), if he is indeed steaming, he may play back at you right there. If the other player has KK QQ JJ AK, he may play along too. |
this is an interesting idea. If he doesn't see right through that and calls, he's stuck in this pot. But, i don't think i'd ever do that w/JJ, AK or hands that would like to take a flop. |
This is why i prefer pushing because I would still push w/AK.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:44 pm GMT by Phil14312
| howzit wrote: | | Phil14312 wrote: |
But TR I think a major point here is that if you let them hit their hands just hard enough, but your overpair is still good, then you can stack off a lot of opponents here. |
Guys, this hand isn't very complicated. SB (who is a high-limit player and shits on my bankroll) is going to play any two to break me. Also, I wouldn't see how he can call and close the action w/AK, KK, AQ when he's OOP against a BB reraise and then I call. AQ/AJ is most likely folding here. AK maybe, maybe not.
Once I call the $75 reraise, SB will not put any money in w/a top pair hand. You guys are getting lost in math calculations here. |
I must've misread the part about SB being a tricky player from higher stakes and isn't the type of player to pay you off with top pair type of hand. Well, if he isn't going to pay you off then min-raise the steamer and try to get SB out.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:22 pm GMT by krakajak
| snoogins47 wrote: | | I'm very tempted to call and stack off on most flops. |
I don't like this play. What hands is SB going to call a $75 raise with? A big ace or a pocket pair. If he has a big ace, is not likely to hit the flop, since 2 of his 6 outs are in your hand, so you can't expect much post-flop action from him. You also have to figure that you will probably not be able to get away from your aces if he has a pocket pair and spikes a set, and that he will double up on you. Considering the stacks of you an your opponent, you are giving him good odds to try to spike his set. I like Dave's idea of raising the minimum. Give him a chance to call, but don't give him such good implied odds.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:28 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I still like re-raising him $75. I can't see him folding & he could come back over the top.
The $75 raise just keeps him that much more committed.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:39 pm GMT by krakajak
Actually, now that I have tought about this some more, I like the smooth-call better.
Let's say he calls $75 with AK or any pocket pair. He is far more likely to have a pair than AK, but when he does have it, he will hit the flop about 25% of the time, and you can expect action from him. Also, although you are giving a pocket pair good odds to spike a set, there are also times that they will have an overpair, and will give you lots of action as well.
Since you are giving him about even odds to hit his set (he's betting $75, and can take 600 from you, 8:1, which is the same as his chance of hitting a set), a set will not cost you anything long term. Actually, it will cost you the $225 you would have won if you had chased him out of the pot, but I think the money you gain from him hitting with AK or flopping an overpair will make up for it.
Posted Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:13 pm GMT by 1988 TR
You think he will fold pre flop for a $75 raise if he is holding AK????
Posted Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:29 am GMT by krakajak
| 1988 TR wrote: | | You think he will fold pre flop for a $75 raise if he is holding AK???? |
no
Posted Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:26 am GMT by 1988 TR
| krakajak wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | You think he will fold pre flop for a $75 raise if he is holding AK???? |
no |
That is why I like a re-raise of $75. I don't see him folding & quite possibly he pushes all in. I like this better than letting him see the flop, miss, and folding.
Posted Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:30 pm GMT by [psyonix]
I'm all-in for sure. If they are to beat me, they will have to pay dearly to do so.
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