Does anyone dislike the way I played this? |
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Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:09 pm GMT by wiggie77
Well, do ya?
$0.5/$1 Blinds No Limit Hold'em
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 10: maver999 ( $79.3 )
Seat 1: haggers ( $41.15 )
Seat 2: Lommelun ( $86.15 )
Seat 3: txbuba ( $104.2 )
Seat 4: Arry007 ( $105.56 )
Seat 5: wiggie77 ( $94.5 )
Seat 6: MonTyNY ( $197.2 )
Seat 7: catbe ( $95.25 )
Seat 8: KJW123 ( $60.82 )
Lommelun posts small blind $0.5.
txbuba posts big blind $1.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wiggie77  
Arry007 folds.
wiggie77 raises $4.
MonTyNY calls $4.
catbe folds.
KJW123 folds.
maver999 folds.
haggers folds.
Lommelun calls $3.5.
txbuba folds.
($13 in pot)
** Dealing Flop **   
Lommelun bets $12.
wiggie77 raises $35.
MonTyNY raises $58.
Lommelun folds.
wiggie77 raises $55.5(all-in).
MonTyNY calls $32.5.
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Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:18 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Not bad. But unless your oppoent is a certified maniac I can assure you you will lose unimproved--of course you have a very good chance at improving.
Also I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with the preflop raise.
Posted Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:15 pm GMT by Magra
I wouldnt of raised so much preflop. To me A 10 is a drawing hand, suited just makes it better. If you hit your ace, your kicker isnt a definate, and if you catch the 10 someone can have an overcard that paired. If i were to raised i woulda put in 2.50 or 3.
Posted Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:08 pm GMT by howzit
I just push the flop rather than making it $35. but the end result is i want the money in the middle.
Posted Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:11 pm GMT by Dr_Pablo
i like it, but id be pretty positive your behind when he re raised you, but what else can you do at that point with so much money already in the middle?
and the preflop raise... i raise with all my drawing hands, but im kinda a lag, but it works for me, different styles of play than 2+2 TA.
Posted Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:03 am GMT by Loonbat
So, did you outdraw the set of 8s?
Posted Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:24 pm GMT by krakajak
HATE the pf raise, especially from ep. With AT, you're often going to find yourself dominated. By building a pot, you're going to increase the amount you have to bet on each street, and will loose a ton when you hit your ace and are out kicked. With easily dominated hands., i like to keep the poit small so I can find out where I'm at cheaply, and can get away from the hand with no regrets if I meet resistance.
Post flop, you played it perfectly.
Posted Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:23 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Interesting. I would have just called the reraise after the flop. You can be pretty sure you are behind at this point. I don't feel like the push "all-in" is going to give you anymore information. You can expect him to push all-in after the turn but at least you may hit your flush by then or be able to lay it down. But this may be a weakness on my part. (probably is. Any of the more experienced players have an opinion on just calling the reraise?)
Posted Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:32 pm GMT by wiggie77
Thanks for the replies. I didn't catch and ended up losing to a set of 3s.
Some of you said you didn't like the preflop raise, but let me explain a little. I realize that AT is easily dominated and that it isn't that great of a hand from early position, and a lot of the time I will fold it. However, I hate limping first in because it seems like every time I do that with a marginal hand it gets popped up and I have to drop it. To me, in that spot I'm either raising or folding. This time I chose to make a standard raise.
If an Ace flops, I'm disciplined enough to drop it if I face much resistance. I also know that if I flop two pair against someone with AK or AQ there's a good chance of me getting their whole stack. Plus, if I flop a flush draw against someone with an overpair or TPTK, I'm going to make him make a tough decision for a lot of money. So in my opinion, the times I hit my hand (or even a big draw) are going to make up for the times I get reraised preflop or don't hit the flop and end up folding.
In this hand I got just about the perfect flop, but ran into a big hand. I don't think there's any way I can just call his flop raise, because if I don't hit on the turn I'm really in a bind. I'd have to either fold and lose the majority of my stack or call off the rest of my money with one card to come. Pushing on the flop forces him to have a set to profitably call me, as anything else (overpair) is about even money against me.
In hindsight, knowing he had a set I should've just folded after his reraise, but with that much money in the pot already it would have been tough to fold there, and I felt he may have been overplaying an overpair.
Posted Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:53 pm GMT by gol4pro
As has been said-- nobody likes the preflop raise.
I think if you're going to raise this flop... it needs to be all in. I know it's a huge overbet, but you're really semi-bluffing here. If you're willing to call the all in, might as well shove your stack in and get maximal fold equity.
A shove all in here is going to make JJ/99 think long and hard here before calling.
I don't think calling this flop would have been terrible either. If a spade does drop, then it's unlikely he'll read you for a flush since you raised preflop.
If an A drops, you're sitting pretty, and probably going broke against his set unfortunately.
I like pushing here the most though.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:10 am GMT by Silhouette
| wiggie77 wrote: | | In this hand I got just about the perfect flop, but ran into a big hand. |
I wouldn't qualify a four to flush draw as a "perfect flop.."
Another spade, or AAA would have been a perfect flop.
I agree that you were too agressive pre flop.. to address what you said about not wanting to limp: The reason you limp is so you can get out cheaply. When you make the raise you're setting pace for the rest of the hand, so in one that's easily dominated, wait to make it before you break yourself on a draw, or the draws you hit won't ever cover the 75% you missed.
To your defense, that raise may have pushed out a bigger hand that had you not made it could have beaten you. It'dve changed the game completely, and since I don't know how aggressive of a table you were at, it may have been a right play (pre-flop).. I would have just called the flop though. I like what Skalansky said about free cards: it's infinite odds to hit, and on a drawing hand you can't beat that. Get the money in the middle after you've hit to maximize, but still leave yourself a back door in case you miss.
My .02
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:43 am GMT by wiggie77
| Silhouette wrote: |
I wouldn't qualify a four to flush draw as a "perfect flop.."
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That's why it was "just about" the perfect flop. Top pair, top kicker with the nut flush draw is a good flop.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:02 am GMT by Skribbles
| wiggie77 wrote: | | Silhouette wrote: |
I wouldn't qualify a four to flush draw as a "perfect flop.."
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That's why it was "just about" the perfect flop. Top pair, top kicker with the nut flush draw is a good flop. |
I also don't like the pre-flop raise but asides from that I'm pushing here. You have so many outs, even if you're against a set. The odds of running into a set are so slim that there is a good chance you're ahead or slightly behind.
I'm not good with math but I've run into this situation a fair bit before. Can one of the math whizzez here post some numbers...
Hand 1: The hand in discussion. TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs a set
Hand 2: TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs an overpair.
Hand 3: TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs two pair
Those are the only three hands that I can see all the money going in with.... anyone care to share some math?
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:33 pm GMT by wiggie77
| Skribbles wrote: |
I'm not good with math but I've run into this situation a fair bit before. Can one of the math whizzez here post some numbers...
Hand 1: The hand in discussion. TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs a set
Hand 2: TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs an overpair.
Hand 3: TPTK w/ a nut flush draw vs two pair
Those are the only three hands that I can see all the money going in with.... anyone care to share some math? |
I ran each of those scenarios last night and here's what I came up with:
Hand 1: The set is a 70% favorite.
Hand 2: The flush draw is a little over a 51% favorite.
Hand 3: Depending on which two pair it is, it is favored as high as 55% or as low as a 49% dog.
So I'm actually I big underdog to a set, which I should have figured was the most likely hand for him to have.
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:27 pm GMT by Loonbat
Improve your table image - the SB never should have called to that raise preflop.
-Loon
Posted Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:26 pm GMT by wiggie77
| Loonbat wrote: | Improve your table image - the SB never should have called to that raise preflop.
-Loon |
Could you shoot him an e-mail for me?
Seriously, I'm pretty sure I had a tight table image. My VP$IP is under 20%, and if I remember right, one of the reasons I played that hand is that I hadn't played any pots in forever. I don't think my image really had anything to do with him doing what he did. I'd assume he had some sort of hand if he called my raise and then led on the flop.
I am sort of baffled by the other guy's call with the 3s though. But I guess it worked out for him.
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