All-In before cards are dealt |
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Posted Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:56 pm GMT by t30258
In NL Texas Hold Em, can you go all-in before the cards are dealt, allowing you to take the blinds if you are not called?
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Posted Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:15 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| t30258 wrote: | | In NL Texas Hold Em, can you go all-in before the cards are dealt, allowing you to take the blinds if you are not called? |
If you would be first to act after the cards were dealt, I don't see why not. I also can't imagine why you would ever do such a thing.
Posted Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:42 pm GMT by racquet000
you can and ive seen it done. Infact it sucks. Because more or less the caller is looking at 60-40 unless hes got a high PP
Posted Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:02 pm GMT by galderon
In NL tournaments, if you get short-stacked enough, eventually it's the correct move to go all-in regardless of the cards you're dealt.
If you still have a decent amount of chips, it's a risky proposition...you'll either win small or lose big.
Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:42 pm GMT by theyweresooted
If someone does this to you, and you're the last to act, you should know that Q7 is the median hand. Half the starting hands are better, and half are worse, so if you have Q7 or better, it's always correct to call.
Not that this ever actually happens...
Posted Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:38 am GMT by Muck
| theyweresooted wrote: | If someone does this to you, and you're the last to act, you should know that Q7 is the median hand. Half the starting hands are better, and half are worse, so if you have Q7 or better, it's always correct to call.
Not that this ever actually happens... |
I’m sorry but I have to disagree with this 
I think a player should consider a lot more than just hole card odds. If you have no other information then okay, using Q7 as a middle marker might work for heads up pre-action. But here we have one other very important piece of information, the players bet size.
If someone is willing to risk everything they have the chance that they are doing it with Q6 or lower is less than 50%. Because they’re no going to move all-in with absolutely any hand.
If you want to use a middle marker set it in the middle of the hands you think they’d go all-in with.
Posted Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:59 pm GMT by Fat Tony
| Muck wrote: | | If you want to use a middle marker set it in the middle of the hands you think they’d go all-in with. |
you seem to be forgetting that the situation under discussion is someone going all-in before the cards are dealt so what you think someone would go all-in with doesn't really mean squat since they had no idea what their pockets cards were when moving in. they could literally have anything from 72o to pocket aces.
Posted Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:58 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| theyweresooted wrote: | If someone does this to you, and you're the last to act, you should know that Q7 is the median hand. Half the starting hands are better, and half are worse, so if you have Q7 or better, it's always correct to call.
Not that this ever actually happens... |
Although this is good logic, I don't believe it's exactly true. There's more to a preflop all-in than I'm ahead/behind. For example AK is behind more hands than pocket twos, but AK is better to be all-in with because there are very few hands it's far behind, and many hands it's way ahead of. Pocket twos will be narrowly ahead of most, but way ahead of very few, and way behind when they're behind.
Anyways, I'm not sure of the numbers but I think it's -EV to call an all-in from random cards with Q7.
Posted Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:05 pm GMT by golddog
Don't forget the "last to act" clause. Since this is pre-flop action, "last to act" is BB, who already has money invested.
Seems like your decision is whether calling gives you the right odds to call with whatever crap you're dealt.
I'm also making a bit of a presumption that in this case there was no other action.
Posted Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:25 pm GMT by theyweresooted
| suitedaces84 wrote: | Although this is good logic, I don't believe it's exactly true. There's more to a preflop all-in than I'm ahead/behind. For example AK is behind more hands than pocket twos, but AK is better to be all-in with because there are very few hands it's far behind, and many hands it's way ahead of. Pocket twos will be narrowly ahead of most, but way ahead of very few, and way behind when they're behind.
Anyways, I'm not sure of the numbers but I think it's -EV to call an all-in from random cards with Q7. |
Good point, I hadn't considered how far hands are relatively ahead or behind. Beyond that, even, is another consideration. If you're playing with someone so bad (or drunk, tilting, etc.) that they'll do this, you might want to wait until you're a very big favorite.
Think about it this way: the guy who's moving all in without looking at his cards is going to lose all his money pretty soon. If you lose a bunch to him on a close call, he's going to lose that, too, probably to someone else. If you pass up this opportunity by folding, say, QJs, there's a good chance you'll have an even better one soon after.
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:08 am GMT by Muck
| Fat Tony wrote: | | Muck wrote: | | If you want to use a middle marker set it in the middle of the hands you think they’d go all-in with. |
you seem to be forgetting that the situation under discussion is someone going all-in before the cards are dealt so what you think someone would go all-in with doesn't really mean squat since they had no idea what their pockets cards were when moving in. they could literally have anything from 72o to pocket aces. |
Sorry I read...
| t30258 wrote: |
can you go all-in before the cards are dealt
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...as the flop cards 
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:01 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
Let him go all in before the cards are dealt, if you've got a big hand call him, if not muck and let him pick up the blinds, if he gets the blinds a couple times he'll think it's a good idea and keep doing it, eventually, someone at the table is gonna pick up that big hand. (and of course, lose to his 72os  )
As Mike Sexton will tell you, "All in works every time, except once."
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