Posted Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:24 am GMT by gringoloco
Hi
I am new to limit hold'em and I would like to seek the opinion of the forum of what you would expect the be the average hourly dollar win over the long term, if you play an average solid conservative/agressive game, according to the teachings of Brunson, TJ, etc. Guys with decades behind them playing the game successfully, i.e. making a living at it.
Can one expect to be ahead on average: one average pot - net - per hour. If not, that what?
Thanks for your input and comments.
GringoLoco
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Posted Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:29 pm GMT by General Sal
At least one big bet per hour... the charts are listed in Malmuth's Poker Essays... the first edition. I've looked at this question so many times... there's info out there saying that you could be a loser in the first month. That would be discouraging. I'd say forget measuring your worth as a poker player based on that. Just play. You should get better if you're "built" that way.
I personally question my own worth as a poker player all the time, and I think that that hinders my performance. Expect to have many losing days.... just keep track of the numbers
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:01 am GMT by Carson Cashman
Hehe... My last trip to Vegas, I played $4/$8 at the Flamingo for about 16 hours and averaged 5 big bets an hour. Poor tourists. 
The $10/$20 at the Mirage was a little tougher. Pulled down 4 big bets an hour there.
Sal, you should play the Mirage $10/$20. Not nearly as tough as I expected.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:09 am GMT by mindgame
4 big bets/hr is ass-kicking $10/20 poker, any way you cut it. Long run you need to be happy with 2 big/bets--you do that an you are beating the game.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:22 am GMT by General Sal
I'm sure I'll be in 10/20 pretty soon... the bankroll is coming soon, and I'll show up with a steamroller.
So, did the 5 big bets per hour actually include the high hand win or not?
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:32 am GMT by mindgame
You seriously think all it takes is money to steamroller a $10-20 game and I'm going to take up a collection at my next game to send you air fare to chicago.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:06 pm GMT by kluCAR
I think the net profit depends also on how many hands is played an hour. Everybody says 4-5big bets an hour. Ok, but how many hands per hour are they considering. Let say there is about 30 hands per hour in casino game. On the internet there is much more (lets say 50). So, if I am playing at 3 tables on the internet, that makes 150 hand per hour which is 5 times more (than in casino), then I should make 20-25 big bets an hour.
I am asking those who say 4-5 big bets an hour, how many hands per hour are the considering. Thank you.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:13 pm GMT by General Sal
I wasn't trying to put a comment to boost my own ego or anything like that... but I guess that's how it came across.
Money isn't the only thing you need, but I think it's the first thing you need to steamroll a game. I just don't like to come to the table shortstacked. That's all I meant. Moreso, I think that we shouldn't come to the table if we don't have at least a $2000 , preferably $4000, bankrolled at the 10/20.
So, can I beat the game once I sit down? With all that cash? Who knows.... we can find out sooner if you get that collection going for me.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:50 pm GMT by mindgame
Well Sal, you ARE braver than I am. About the time I drop $700 or $800 in a $10/20 game I just get up and admit I'm being outplayed. Hey, I'm good, but you get 3 or 4 people as good as I am in the same game--not to mention if they're better--and all we do is push money around while the casino chips away and chips away.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:51 pm GMT by Carson Cashman
Sal, you really don't need all that cash to beat the game. All it would really do would inflate your table image somewhat, but good play should do that anyways.
The last thing you want is a huge stack in front of you with the other players at the table thinking you're weak.  Thats a disaster.
I was moved from a $6/$12 game, so I only had $500 in reds, plus $400 in hundreds underneath. I just played a solid tight/aggressive game, and won a few big pots.
The 4 and 5 big bets/hour I averaged really isn't a very accurate figure, as that was really only two good sessions. Overall, I think I'm at around 2 big bets/hour. Still pretty happy with that, though.
Posted Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:14 pm GMT by General Sal
Thanks, Carson, for the tip. I should be ready for the grand opening of the Palms Pokerroom - 9/18 and no limit table - ... she said March 20th or 23rd, so maybe you'll be out here again! I'll ask and see if the room is having a grand opening of sorts... I know that the Palms is having a grand opening for the new tattoo store that they're putting in.
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