This chump on my right... |
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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:24 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Last night at the $3/$6, I wasn't having a good night luck-wise, though I take solace in the fact that I believe I played almost every hand I was dealt very well. But my frustration was compounded by the guy on my right, who felt the need to educate everyone on the "official" rules of the game. One hand I will never forget.
I am dealt A  A  in late position. Two limpers, I raise, the BB and the two limpers calls.
Flop
J  10 6 
BB checks, EP checks, MP bets, I raise. BB folds, EP calls, MP calls.
Turn
J
EP bets, and MP raises. I put them both on a Jack of course. So I say, "well, I'm sure my hand is no good." I flip it over and toss it in the muck, partly because I'm frustrated that I have to lay down aces twice in the span of about 10 hands, and partly to show the lay-down that I know no one at the table would have made (excuse my Hellmuth moment). Now, I know what I did was not exactly kosher, and probably at least somewhat inappropriate. But this jerk on my right goes out of the way to say:
"That's a no-no. I know you're probably new, but you can't expose your cards like that while the hand is going on. Don't do it again."
Hold the phone... I know I erred, but if my action is that inappropriate, it's the dealer's job to correct me, not his. He was not even in the hand for God's sake! Neither the players in the hand nor the dealer said anything about my play. It's not as though there were a lot of players in the pot, nor was it a tournament, nor did my hand matter since they both had jacks to begin with!
Then as the river comes down, the guy feels the need to carry on. "You didn't have to show anyway, man. Everyone knew you had pocket aces. It was so obvious." If everyone knew, why does it matter I turned them up? How much of an ass is this guy trying to be--I can accept his admonishment, but this comment made me want to punch him in the face. It's not as though I hadn't raised with any other hand while we were playing.
Then when the hand goes to showdown, the MP guy shows AJ, exactly what I knew he had! Then the guy on my right opens his mouth AGAIN! "See? Now he knew there were 2 dead aces. That's why you can't show your cards!" Still nothing from the dealer about my behavior, or his--the MP bettor says to me, "nice laydown." I ignore the guy on my right and say "thanks."
I'm sure I was slightly out of line, but I think my act was a poker misdemeanor on the grand scale, and I believe the guy on my right was acting even more inappropriately and was out of line. Anyone agree?
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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:46 pm GMT by suitedaces84
I find it very irritating when others show their cards or discuss their hands after they fold and before the hand is complete. I know I would have been pissed at you if I was in the hand. And even if I wasn't involved in the hand I would have said something because I wouldn't want you to do it again. I'm sure he's rant went on far too long and was too much given the minor infraction.
Also the other players' knowledge that they can make you fold an overpair can only work to your disadvantage. In that hand they were raising because they believed they had you beat and wanted your money. They think you're calling with an overpair and don't want you to fold. Next time they one might raise in a similar situation with an inferior hand. I know this is not too likely, but it's possible.
So for the good of yourself and everyone else don't do it again. I know you know better.
Posted Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:38 pm GMT by saper88aa
that chump prolly watchs the wpt wayyy to much
Posted Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:35 pm GMT by theyweresooted
Yeah, you were both a little out of line. Showing cards while the hand is still going on is a bad thing. At 3/6 the dealer may not know enough to correct you, but at higher limits you'll get a lot of complaints if you keep doing this. Plus, it really might have affected how the hand was played. What if the guy in EP had had KJ? Knowing that two aces are gone makes it much more likely that he has the best hand. So, don't do it again. But you already knew that.
I also hate table coaches. Players who really know the game don't try to educate their opponents. Which means that if you're telling someone how they should have played a hand, you're a dumbass. One of the challenges of poker is not showing off your knowledge. You should be content to win money rather than the admiration of the table. That means don't go on and on about how somebody should have played (though a polite mention of the rules is not wrong). It also means that you should try not to show off that you knew you were beat and have the discipline to fold pocket aces.
Posted Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:56 am GMT by JadedIndividual
You should have just said to the guy "yeah I know I wasn't supposed to do that, and I did it anyway, doesn't that just get under your skin?"
It's so easy to throw some people off their game, and so much fun to watch.
The only time I'm a table coach is when someone doesn't understand the blinds and the dealer may not notice, or isn't paying attention. Other than that I keep my mouth shut, except last night, the dealer pushed the pot to a player when it was supposed to be a chop, so myself and the guy next to me said something, since no one else seemed to notice it.
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:43 am GMT by Cyberhwk
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | I'm sure I was slightly out of line, but I think my act was a poker misdemeanor on the grand scale, and I believe the guy on my right was acting even more inappropriately and was out of line. Anyone agree? |
You were out of line and I think the guy did the right thing by brining it up. I don't know if exposing your cards is nessesarily against the rules (which is why the dealer might not have said anything) but it is still improper.
Was it possible he was a pro or otherwise somehow depended on the money? I'd be pretty pissed off if my daughter couldn't get a new coat because some newbie was pissed off they weren't catching cards.
As for the rest, he was likely just trying to fully demonstrate why exposing your cards was a bad idea. He probably thought you were a newbie and just didn't know any better so he found a good example to teach proper ettiquete.
The "we knew what you had" comment was uncalled for though.
But FWIW, I screwed some poor guy out of money due to my newbieness the other day too. I bet, had one caller so I turned over my straight. Problem was there was a guy still left to act who folded after he saw the straight. The caller turned over the 6 for the same straight, so I cost both of us money. 
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:57 am GMT by Muck
Nice post Cyberhwks
If he believed you were a novice he was just being condescending and trying to educate you.
If he believed you should have known better he was just being patronising and trying to annoy you.
Either way you opened the door. Next time you could wait till you have the moral high ground then break down his mistakes bow by bow using examples, quotes and diagrams 
Posted Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:38 pm GMT by Esbo
I have to say you were bang out of order showing your cards
during play, if anyone deserved a punch in the face it was you.
Also I don't agree with your analysis either, but thats a minor point.
I suspect your post is a wind-up anyway.
You didn't know what either player had nor did the guy to the right
know you had AA, at least not untill you *cheated* by showing your
cards.
Seems to me that the two other players said nothing because
you were losing money and they wanted to keep you happy.
Apart from anything else, either player could have been bluffing
or had TT.
What you should have done is apologised and used the oppertunity
to leave the table whilst you still had your shirt!!!!! 
Posted Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:58 pm GMT by snoogins47
The first part of his response was spot on, and the second was probably to mess with your head a bit. Either way, just don't show your damned cards, and if you want to strain your arm patting yourself on the back, do so after the hand, and don't expect anybody else to pat it for you.
Posted Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:21 pm GMT by Dr_Pablo
SHENANIGINS!
Posted Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:58 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I know you may have been frustrated, but that is not a cool move. That guy was right....
Posted Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:39 pm GMT by gumbie
You were lucky I wasn't at the table.
You would have got a lot worse from me than you got from the "chump".
Don't show your cards while the hand is going on. It's wrong.
Posted Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:51 am GMT by BeerWench13
I would've said something to you as well although I think he could've been more diplomatic about it. All he needed to say was "Don't expose your cards while the hand is still in play." In my opinion, that would've been all that needed to be said. I agree with snoogs that the rest was probably just a ploy to make you steam a bit or embarrass you so that your play was distracted.
I would never hit anyone in the face or throw something at them at the card table. If I'm on tilt that much, I shouldn't be playing.
I was "corrected" at the table when I first played in a casino. The guy was very polite in his statement and I apologized immediately for my mistake. Now, being a female may have altered the way he corrected me, but his manner made me feel like he was trying to be helpful, not being a jerk. However, I think your "chump" really was trying to be a jerk.
Posted Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:51 am GMT by stapleface
i think the guy was right on saying what he said, you shouldn't do it. no matter what the circumstances are. even though he isn't in the hand, it could still affect his game later on when he is in a hand and you do it again. but when he went on to say "you didn't even have to show your cards, everyone knew you had aces" thats just shit talk and doesn't need to be said. it can be very annoying.
Posted Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:08 am GMT by lwestatbus
Were you playing with my brother in law? It sounds like him.
Had the reverse situation at an online game. Flop was 7-2-X and one folded player instantly (before the turn) chatted that he'd folded 7-2. I politely messaged that he shouldn't discuss (expose) the cards while the hand was in progress and he also politely said something like, "Oh, sorry, I guess you're right." Then another player lays into the guy with several messages, the folder gets defensive and goes into a multi-message dissertation about why it didn't matter. All wrong of course but I shut up (and played).
Posted Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:52 pm GMT by nixon
So, are you really frustrated at the "chump" on your right, or the fact that you had bad night at the table? Sounds like some mis-placed anger to me.
Posted Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:26 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| nixon wrote: | | So, are you really frustrated at the "chump" on your right, or the fact that you had bad night at the table? Sounds like some mis-placed anger to me. |
Both. I acknowledge the fact I was out of line. But I think he was out of line by carrying on and on and on about it after the fact when it was such a minor incident. Oh well, I was being dumb--I've gotten over it.
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