NL Ring Rookie needs help again |
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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:08 am GMT by Dave B
I am at or near the button w/ KK vs a real idiot who keeps bleeding away $50-75 and reloading. $.50/$1 NL 10 handed I have $140 or so, he has $70, blind has $60-80. I know it shouldnt matter, but I started w/ $50, so I have my buy in covered and can only lose profit.
So, moron raises to $5 and I smooth call, feeling I really make this guy suffer if an A doesnt hit. Here is what throws me off the "plan" blind calls the raise too. Hmmm....
Flop 873 rainbow, $15 in the pot preflop, blind checks, moron bets $12, I raise to $30, both fold.
Now, I was kind of expecting the moron to call, but I didnt want to continue to slow play w/ the blind in the hand. I was ok w/ picking up $20+, but i think I could have gotten more.
So, do I raise min preflop to ensure that I isolate to moron or hope he fires back at me? Did I have this guy perfectly set up and should have risked the blind catching 2 pair and just smooth called? Or did I play this right by taking a nice pot without risking one of two players catching up?
I think AA I might have just called the flop, but I really didnt want to see an Ace of the turn.
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Posted Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:19 am GMT by Geno
Personally, I would have raised pre-flop instead of calling. If the guy is a maniac, he's gonna call and you're gonna see the flop with a whole lot more money on the table. If it is Ace high and he goes all-in, so be it, take the hit and fold but if there is no Ace, in his dumb brain he is pot-committed and I reckon will call any raise in which case say hello to all his chips.........
Posted Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:13 am GMT by Muck
I would have probably re-raised the same amount as the moron PF.
This is just my experience but maniacs have a habit of overrating suited and connected cards, more often then not the flop wont help them and they’ll fold to a bet.
So the best time to profit from their mistake is PF where they’re overconfident in their hand and don’t like the idea of having to lose their raise.
On top of this, as Geno mentioned, it builds their commitment and if the flop doesn’t bring a likely straight or flush draw you can bet the same amount as you did but the larger pot will make the odds look more attractive too them (while still not sufficient to draw). Sorry that’s not written very well.
Posted Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:01 pm GMT by TheSalche
| Geno wrote: | | Personally, I would have raised pre-flop instead of calling. If the guy is a maniac, he's gonna call and you're gonna see the flop with a whole lot more money on the table. If it is Ace high and he goes all-in, so be it, take the hit and fold but if there is no Ace, in his dumb brain he is pot-committed and I reckon will call any raise in which case say hello to all his chips......... |
seconded ... any smart player will fold to a reraise without a top 5 hand, reraising puts you heads up vs. the moron who will bleed to you ... id suggest raise to $10 -$15 to isolate and take down a nice one
Posted Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:00 am GMT by Dave B
I dont know guys, I can see your point, but I think if I raise the flop and take control of the hand here, then he wont fire on the flop and I dont win any more money anyway. I think the slow play was perfect until the blind limped and brought more outs into the mix.
So, if I raise the preflop, then do I check the flop and make him think I am weak? I think that the only way I get more money from this hand is if he reraise preflop and I can push all in. With rags on the flop and a preflop raise, unless I value bet after the flop and give him pot odds to call w/ overcards, I either risk more or make less.
In hindsight, niether stack was massive, I kind of like my preflop play (against this player anyway) and wish I had just smooth called the bet on the flop. The raise if he comes out again on the turn-I shouldnt have worried too much about the blind's hand.
Posted Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:22 am GMT by suitedaces84
Make it $15 preflop and hope he catches enough of the flop to fall in love with his hand. If you make it $15 preflop, bet $15 on the flop, then $30 on the turn he'll be getting 3:1 on every call. It will be much harder for him to get away from his hand if the pot is bigger.
Posted Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:22 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | So, moron raises to $5 |
This guy has been bleeding money. Make him bleed. If he truly is a maniac moron, he'll probably take offense if you come back over top of him preflop which will likely make him reraise all-in just because he's offended. I love these types of players. They don't want to lose the raising war. I think the smooth call probably scared him more than a reraise would have done, especially if he's been raising often preflop. If you had reraised, he would probably have thought you were just trying to make a move on his raise and come back over top of you. In this case, that's an ideal circumstance. Also, I would definitely want to isolate K's to heads-up play. I don't want another player in the hand to possibly hit their set if they have a small PP.
Posted Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:03 am GMT by Soup_dog
Yep... definitely go with the reraise. I would probably just throw another $5 on top of the stack. That should be enough to get rid of the blinds and give the moron enough "wiggle" room to call or raise. If he checks on the flop check back to him. He would probably bet the turn and you can either call or try and take it right there with another reraise.
BTW Dave, good to see you trying NL I know what a good player you are at limit so I wouldn't be surprised to see you start raking in the money at the NL tables. Good luck!
Posted Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:38 pm GMT by howzit
| Dave B wrote: | I am at or near the button w/ KK vs a real idiot who keeps bleeding away $50-75 and reloading. $.50/$1 NL 10 handed I have $140 or so, he has $70, blind has $60-80.
So, moron raises to $5 and I smooth call, feeling I really make this guy suffer if an A doesnt hit. Here is what throws me off the "plan" blind calls the raise too. Hmmm....
Flop 873 rainbow, $15 in the pot preflop, blind checks, moron bets $12, I raise to $30, both fold.
Now, I was kind of expecting the moron to call, but I didnt want to continue to slow play w/ the blind in the hand. I was ok w/ picking up $20+, but i think I could have gotten more.
So, do I raise min preflop to ensure that I isolate to moron or hope he fires back at me? Did I have this guy perfectly set up and should have risked the blind catching 2 pair and just smooth called? Or did I play this right by taking a nice pot without risking one of two players catching up?
I think AA I might have just called the flop, but I really didnt want to see an Ace of the turn. |
UTG i assume is horrible and willing to call anothe raise, so put one in preflop. Make it $12-15 to go. That'll make playing this hand much easier.
As is, raising the flop is ok but it does have it's cons. Your raise to $30 will committ you to the pot. If UTG or blinds come over the top you'll be facing a $40 bet into a $115ish pot. I'm not folding for 3:1 there.
Perhaps, smooth-calling once more and see how blind reacts would be able to help trap UTG. I see no problem w/raising though.
If these guys are really drawing to an Ax hand, they have 3 -5 outs at best. In NL, you don't want shittier hands to fold, especially when they are drawing thin.
Posted Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:45 pm GMT by howzit
| Dave B wrote: | | I shouldnt have worried too much about the blind's hand. |
this is the hand that concerns me the most.
Posted Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:51 pm GMT by howzit
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Make it $15 preflop and hope he catches enough of the flop to fall in love with his hand. If you make it $15 preflop, bet $15 on the flop, then $30 on the turn he'll be getting 3:1 on every call. It will be much harder for him to get away from his hand if the pot is bigger. |
a.k.a. the installment plan.
Posted Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:06 pm GMT by Loonbat
Agree with the above - you don't call with this and allow the blind in so cheaply (who will be getting 3-1 on his money, allowing alot of hands to play effectively). An 87s or pp 3s who may have played for the odds shouldn't if you make it 15 all day preflop.
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