best professionals at readin |
|
Posted Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:28 pm GMT by kellerumd
I was just curious to see who you guys thought were the best professionals at reading people.
Mike Caro is a popular answer but I seen Jennifer Harmon make incredible reads. Negraneau is pretty good too.
So what do you think? or on the flip side who are the worst at reading people? I think Jesus, Chris Ferguson is terrible at it but he is an awesome pure player.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:14 pm GMT by TheSalche
| kellerumd wrote: |
So what do you think? or on the flip side who are the worst at reading people? I think Jesus, Chris Ferguson is terrible at it but he is an awesome pure player. |
uhhh ... gonna have to disagree with you a lot there ... he made that one amazing call in WSOP 2004 when he was pushed all in with a low flush i believe
besides them i gotta say phil ivey, gus hansen, and danny n. are all great at reading players, and they have to be so that they're aggressive styles work ... they sense weakness and pounce!
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:31 pm GMT by Loonbat
Annie Duke - did you read the article about her, the FBI interrogator and the lie detector?
Posted Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:04 am GMT by Silhouette
I think Ivey and Ferguson are two of the best as far as reading.
Chris Moneymaker is probably the worst.
Posted Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:38 pm GMT by mikenike
johnny chan is pretty good...
i wouldn't say chris is the worst.. becuase hes new to poker pros
Posted Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:40 pm GMT by kellerumd
Maybe worst is a bad word to chose because he is still a pro, but anyways I heard Daniel Negreaneau talking about his play on one of the wsop circuits the others night and he said that Chris will openly admit he isn't the best at reading people but he is probably the best tournament strategist there is. He said that you will never find him at a cash game. I find this weird because you would think you would play cash just to keep your skills sharp, even if you weren't the best at it.
Posted Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:00 pm GMT by ddawg923
got to go with luske 
Posted Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:10 pm GMT by Johny
Without a doubt Doyle Brunson.
Posted Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:12 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
There is a fine line between being great at reading people and just being a lucky f**k.
My favourite read.... Marcel Luske's "Your Kings are good" during wsop 2004
Posted Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:40 pm GMT by Geno
| ddawg923 wrote: | | got to go with luske |
"Your Kings are good" wins it for me every time 
Posted Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:30 pm GMT by Jauron
The problem is on TV they cut out so many hands and it's also easy to forget they don't show 4 days worth of poker. They get to the final table and most players have spent hours and hours if not days playing with each other in the same event.
That said, Daniel Negreaneau seems very good at it.
Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:15 am GMT by Nut Flush
Moneymaker isn't horrible, far from the best but calling Boyd's all in with a mere pair of threes was a pretty good read.
And besides the ones mentioned already, who are all great, I'd ahve to add Chip Reese to the list. I wish he'd be on TV more than he is.
Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:23 am GMT by fiezk
according to Daniel Negreanu its Jennifer Harman. At least at reading him.
Posted Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:09 pm GMT by lwestatbus
| Geno wrote: | | ddawg923 wrote: | | got to go with luske |
"Your Kings are good" wins it for me every time |
I was actually going to start a new thread but found this one.
I've been replaying the 2004 WSOP to get my fix in between broadcasts of the 2005. In the same hour broadcast as this quote Luske made two more reads that were right on or close enough. Also, Chris Moneymaker came to town a few months ago and he played poker for a while with some local sportswriters and celebrities. One writer reported that after twenty minutes he was calling out hands with unbelievable accuracy. Finally, when you do see the pros make a verbal read on an opponent they seem to be 90% accurate, at least as to the nature of the hand--middle pair, KK/QQ, made set, etc.
So, how is this done? Is it learned or instinct? Tells and patterns? I can think of other things in my life when I know what will happen (e.g., bring home new expensive power tool and catch hell, buy more poker chips and catch hell, etc.) and know why I know that these things can happen. Is there anybody who can honestly say that they can do this in live play? If so, how did you come to this ability?
Are my dreams of WSOP immortality destined for the muck pile because I can't do this right off the bat, is it something I can learn, and will I be an easy read for any more experienced player. My mother could always tell when I was up to something so I'm not confident that I'll ever survive in live play against pros.
Thoughts?
Posted Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:36 pm GMT by twofotisx
wow old thread...
I'd say that the percentage learned or instinct is directly related to the player. There are some players that simply seem like they were born to cards the way lance armstrong was born to bike. However when you add knowledge and mainly experience to that equation you can create a very profitable mix. I can honestly say that when I play in the casino there are occasional hands when I know exactly what they are holding and how they are going to play it. But the hands that I do know their hand exactly are not just from "tells", it's more of a combination of their mannerisms, betting patterns, conversation, that enables me to put them directly on a hand.
Over time you get used to seeing certain "personallities" sitting at the table with you and you can almost instantly know their style of play and get fairly accurate information about what kinds of hands they will play and how they will play them. As far as not being one of these "personallities" yourself is your ability to switch your style of play up to confuse people. Now sometimes this may not need to be an option, in nofoldem holdem you rarely have to employ tactfull manuvers to throw off your oppenents because the simple ones will almost always carry you through.
To survive in the main event or something of similar talent and stucture, you HAVE TO be able to vary your style at key moments. How well you can find these key moments and switch accordingly can be the difference between a good player and a great player. This is one of the reasons why I like Phil Ivey so much. He always says that he never goes to the table with a game plan, he lets the table to the planning for him and then he acts accordingly.
Posted Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:03 am GMT by JohnnyCache
Man I think of the big TV names if Phil Ivey doesn't have ESP no one does.
Posted Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:37 pm GMT by Ciso_B
Recall is huge factor i think how the pros make their accurate reads.
Posted Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:23 am GMT by zinn0
I honestly think Phil Ivey has X-ray vision or something.
Posted Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:50 pm GMT by lwestatbus
Was watching a WSOP special on "The Best Hand I Ever Played". Annie Duke talked about a laydown she made against Greg Raymer in the Tournament of Champions after the 2004 WSOP. She said that the Main Event episodes when Raymer was separating himself from the pack had just shown in the few days before the tournament and that she had noticed a specific tell that he had when he wanted to be called and didn't want to be called. (She wouldn't say what it was.) She said that she could tell in the hand in question that he wanted to be called and she layed it down. Then won the tournament. I think that Annie Duke and my mother share the same gene pool somewhere back in history.
Another point in reply to twofotisx. Since my Nov post I played about eight hours in three sessions of $2/$4 FL in Vegas. I saw the same thing in myself. I found that I was able to categorize players after about a half an hour and won my biggest pot against a guy who I thought was aggressively betting two big cards (I was right) and who didn't make the hand. He bet out all the way to the showdown but my pair of sixes beat his AK. Came out ahead overall and was very, very pleased that this 'sense' seemed to be there, though untrained.
Posted Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm GMT by Hackenkreutz
Howard Ledered notes Phil Hellmuth as being one of the best readers in poker....
After watching him play in several tournaments (especially WSOP 2005 tournament of champions, when he called that large bet with King High with two pair on board, even the commentators said "omg! Wow!")
Phil is the best in my opinion, but I'm very biased because he is my hero.
Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:25 am GMT by JewishPete
| Hackenkreutz wrote: | Howard Ledered notes Phil Hellmuth as being one of the best readers in poker....
After watching him play in several tournaments (especially WSOP 2005 tournament of champions, when he called that large bet with King High with two pair on board, even the commentators said "omg! Wow!")
Phil is the best in my opinion, but I'm very biased because he is my hero. |
Gotta love the bluff that matusow laid on him during the 2005 TOC, though...That was pure gold.
I agree with most everyone that people listed already, and I don't think Hellmuth is the best, I do think he is good.
Also another one to list could be Scotty Fischman. I am not in any way saying he is one of the best, but for a younger guy, he really does have a pretty decent poker sense
Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:27 am GMT by Johny
Phil Hellmuth, at the top of his game, is probably one of the best at reading is opponents.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:29 am GMT by Hackenkreutz
I don't think I would congratulate Matusow for his bluff.....I mean, yeah, sure he pulled it off....but look what he risked. all his chips on 8-3 preflop ...???? if phil would have called, mike would have been a huge dog, and what did he risk it for? A relatively small pot...
I like Mike, but not when he insults my hero...grrr..lol
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:47 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Ted Forrest and Barry Greenstein are phenomenal readers.
Phil Hellmuth is a fish and an ass-hat. Find a new hero. 
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:33 am GMT by zinn0
I think it's safe to say that anyone who has a professional poker player as their hero, needs a new hero.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:43 am GMT by supafrey
You're right zinnnooo. It's so disreputable. That's why I choose nothing but the finest of porn kings as my personal idols.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:08 pm GMT by zinn0
| supafrey wrote: | | You're right zinnnooo. It's so disreputable. That's why I choose nothing but the finest of porn kings as my personal idols. |
Thats more like it.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:49 pm GMT by Geno
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Ted Forrest and Barry Greenstein are phenomenal readers. |
You've been watching High Stakes Poker I think! I'm with you on the Forrest thing, that guy is an absolute master at reading the toughest opponents going.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:32 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Geno wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Ted Forrest and Barry Greenstein are phenomenal readers. |
You've been watching High Stakes Poker I think! I'm with you on the Forrest thing, that guy is an absolute master at reading the toughest opponents going. |
Every time I've seen Forrest play he's nearly flawless--the Wynn tournament, the Mirage Showdown, High Stakes Poker, but the best read I ever saw...
In the 2004 7-Card Stud event Forrest called down Chad Brown the whole way with a lowly pair of deuces, supremely confident that Brown had nothing, which he didn't.
In top condition, I fully believe that Ted Forrest is the best Poker player in the world.
Posted Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:09 pm GMT by bigrazor
Daniel Negraneau puts more people on more hands than anyone i've seen. also, if i were to play anyone heads up for any amount, he would be my last chocie (maybe for the same reason).
Posted Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:30 pm GMT by mrcfkane
ivey....did anyone see him at the final table of the monte carlo millions, when he was heads up with Q8 of hearts, the board came jj7 with 2 clubs, he bet, then was raised, then he reraised, then he was reraised again, then he pushed all in. the guy paul jackson had to lay down his 6 high in disbelief that his bluffs failed.
that was the best play i've ever seen.
|
|
