Two drawing hands, what do you think? |
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Posted Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:18 pm GMT by TheSalche
My usual PP $10 SnG ... a note on both, don't question preflop calls. I know they were subpar, but I was ready to throw the first one away to a raise, and the 2nd one I would've tossed to a bigger raise.
Hero is UTG with 8  9 and calls the BB, one limper, SB completes and BB checks
Flop: 6  7 Q
Bingo, checked to hero who bets 60 (the pot), SB calls, others fold
Turn: 4 
Hero bets 180 and SB calls. 2nd check call now ...
River: J
SB pushes and hero calls.
SB shows 45o
2nd hand:
Hero is SB with J 10
Folded to CO, who makes it 45 to go, Hero calls, BB folds.
Flop: 7 8 A
Hero bets 75 into pot of 105, CO min-raises, hero calls.
Turn: 9
Hero checks, CO bets 200, Hero pushes and CO calls with 77
River: 10
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Posted Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:58 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I don't see any problem with those hands - Even the pre flop calls - Not bad calls in early stages of tournies (Cheap blinds).
I'm not sure I would have played either hand any differently. NH's
Posted Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:34 pm GMT by gol4pro
Other than the turn bet in hand 1, I like everything I see here. Maybe there's a specific reason you made that play (like he'll often fold to a 2nd bullet), but most of the time, just take your free card.
Very nice.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:38 am GMT by Soup_dog
I agree. I liked both of those plays, even preflop.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:49 am GMT by Dave B
I also dont like the turn bet on hand 1. Here are my reasons:
1) you only have 9 high
2) he called on the flop from the blind out of position-he likely has some kind of pair
3) You have gone from a favorite to a dog after missing
4) You are in position, a check here and if you make your hand, he will likely sense weakness and come at you-89 is a great disguised hand when made
5) If you miss the turn, do you let those chips go or risk your tourney on a bluff
2nd hand, I might let this go. I would call if under 100 to me on the flop, but a bet and raise can mean my flush is no good. If I was open ended on the str8, I might call, but I could go either way with this one. If I have a lot of chips or short stacked, I may even go all in. If it is early w/ all about even, I might lay down and look for a better spot.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:02 am GMT by howzit
i like it all.
the turn bet w/the OESD + FD is a matter of style and read dependant.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:10 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I like most of the plays on the flop and after, except the aforementioned turn bet on hand #1. In an SnG at Party, calling UTG with 98s isn't a bad play, but I normally really hate playing this hand from early position, especially since you usually don't want to raise with it. In a multi, I'd routinely dump it, but in single table Party SnGs, you can't just wait around. Good play overall I'd say.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:14 pm GMT by Skribbles
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | In a multi, I'd routinely dump it, but in single table Party SnGs, you can't just wait around. Good play overall I'd say. |
I don't really understand your logic here. True that SnGs at Party go alot quicker (do they still do the # of hands till blinds raise?) but the hand holds the same value in tournement play against a full table. Hands like this are a great way to build your stack in MTTs against maniacs.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:03 pm GMT by TheSalche
i appreciate all the replies ... after reviewing my play i think the pot-sized turn bet in the first hand is a little in excess, and it was much more approriate for the flop ... 2/3 or so should've been good enough for the turn
i suppose a way to think about it is that this guy will most likely to check to me on the river if a non-diamond comes, so if a 'semi-out' comes like an 8 or 9 i can just check behind and hope to take down the pot there
im definetly NOT taking a free card off the turn there ... this pot has way too much potential, and even with my oversized bet, i'm investing only 1/4 of my stack, and i can easily fold the river if i dont improve and he pushes into me .. but may just be me cause i like to bet my draws
as for letting the 2nd hand go, the flop bet was more of a blocking bet so that he would be less likely to raise me hard. if he had raised to 200 or more, its pretty likely that i would've given the hand up
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:11 pm GMT by howzit
if I bet this turn, I "value bet" the river when it blanks.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:35 pm GMT by TheSalche
| howzit wrote: | | if I bet this turn, I "value bet" the river when it blanks. |
do you throw it away then if you get check raised on the river?
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:06 pm GMT by suitedaces84
The turn bet on hand one is highly debatable, IMO. It's an easy bet if you know the player and are confident he will not check-raise you big. You're giving away very little EV if you get called. You're also disguising your hand very well. Checking behind on the turn will reveal your hand and you'll never get paid on the river. I also like that you bet big enough so he might actually fold a winner. The biggest mistake you can make here is betting small which will either get you check-raised or serve as donatation to any better hand. Checking behind is also fine, but I think I bet there.
Posted Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:16 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I like the turn bet on hand 1. He maintains control of the betting. He checks there & may be facing a tough decision when the opponent senses weekness.
Plus, if the opponent has a marginal hand, he probably lets it go.
Posted Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:31 am GMT by howzit
| TheSalche wrote: | | howzit wrote: | | if I bet this turn, I "value bet" the river when it blanks. |
do you throw it away then if you get check raised on the river? |
that would make it the easiest laydown. i think you have a 9 high. If a diamond comes and u get check-raised i don't like it but i call. If he's tricky, he can easily be bluffing there (I have) and he'd not be a very good poker player to be calling big bets for -EV and then check his gin card when it would obviously freeze a top pair type hand.
I was talking about missing your 134153 outs. If i hit a pair, i check.
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