Posted Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:07 am GMT by kiFF_aKa
I'm a nooby, and even after all this reading I've done, I still don't get Pot odds etc. Can someone very simply explain to me the point of pot odds and when to call or fold using it please?
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Posted Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:03 am GMT by starfishblue
Well I haven't got lots of time so i'll give you one quick example:
Let's say you're playing in a short-handed game and on the flop, you flop a flush draw. There is currently $100 in the pot and someone in early position bets $50.
To call, you must put $50 to win $150. So your pot odds are 150:50 or 3:1.
Now let's say you believe EP has top pair so you need to hit your flush to win the pot (other outs excluded for simplicity). The odds of hitting your flush on the turn or the river is 2:1. Because the odds of hitting your flush is better than the pot odds, you should call.
Just think of it as rolling a dice for money. You pay $1 to play a game where if you roll a 6, you win $5. Now the odds of rolling a 6 is 5:1 and you're paying 5:1. So the game is fair. If you have to pay $2 then you are paying 5:2 which is mose worse than the rolling odds.
It took me some time to understand pot odds so hope this helps even a little bit. Implied odds is simply taking into account the possible money you can win if hit your cards.
Posted Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:34 pm GMT by kiFF_aKa
So is it basically this: you should only call if taking the chance is worth it if you win???
In other words, you don't want to call a huge amount if you may only win a small amount?
But where do odds come in? Should you call a huge amount to win a small amount if your chances of winning are very good? Someone please explain that to me. I hope I'm not confusing anyone lol.
also...
1) someone define "pot-odds" plz
2) when are "pot-odds" good and when are they bad?
3) based on question #2, when should you call and when should you fold?
thank you :D
Posted Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:39 pm GMT by zinn0
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/odds.php
Hope this helps.
Posted Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:41 pm GMT by suitedaces84
The first thing you have to understand is what odds are, what probablility is and how they are related. Odds are bad:good, probability is good/(bad+good). Odds are usually expressed in X:1 and can always be simplified to that. 27:3 can be simplified to 9:1. Probability is expressed in a decimal such as .1.
If the probabiltiy is X the corresponding odds would be (1-X):X. If the probability is .1 the odds would be (1-.1):.1 or .9:.1 or 9:1. We usually use odds because it is much easier to calculate them quickly.
Now let's say I'm playing 2/4 limit. I have top pair and have been betting all the way. On the river a scare card hits. My oppoent who checked to me on the the flop and turn now bets. I look and see that the pot now has $40 in it plus the $4 he bet. So I'm now getting 11:1 to on my call. I'm think I'm beat, should I fold? No, not without an excellent read on him. Even if I'm beat here 90% of the time it's still correct to call, if I was beat here 95% of the time it would be incorrect to call. But without a great read there is no way to determine that I'm beat that often. So it should be an easy call.
I'm playing 2/4 limit again. This time I have Q  8 . The flop is A K 2  . I call a single bet on the flop and the turn is 6  . One oppoent bets the next calls and it's to me. Now there is $20 total in the pot. So I'm getting 5:1 on my call. So I have to ask, how sure am I that I will win this hand (I will win this hand if a hits on the turn). There are 13 in the deck total. Two on the board and two in my hand. So there are nine left in the deck. And there are 46 unseen cards, 37 of which are bad cards, nine of which are good cards. The odds of a spade hitting on the turn is 37:9, which is about 36:9, which is 4:1. I'm a 4:1 dog to win and I'm getting better than 4:1 on my money so my pot odds are good, making this an easy call.
Had one oppoent bet and the other raised on the turn I would be getting 24:8 or 3:1 on my call and would have bad pot odds.
Memorize these numbers:
four flush--4:1
open ended straight 4.5:1
gutshot straight 11:1
So before you call with a gutshot straight ask "if I hit will I win 11 times whatever it is to call?" If the pot is $44 and it's $4 to call you will win 11 times the call so you have good pot odds.
There are many more things to consider, but this is the very basics.
Edit: I thought we covered this a while back, it turns out we did. And I have proof.
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/t10921/figuring-out-pot-odds?sid=6fcc4fff7da034af6dc82ff0d107808f
Posted Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:10 am GMT by mangothebear
One other thing to keep in mind, especially in NL games, is implied odds.
implied odds mean that if I DO hit my draw, how much more can I get out of the other player on the later betting rounds.
So even if the pot odds are CLOSE to my odds of hitting my outs, but I think my opponent has a strong hand and will call a big bet on the river, it might be worth it to draw. This is especially important in NL because instead of just making one extra bet, I can make a big, pot sized bet.
Posted Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:19 am GMT by kiFF_aKa
www.texasholdem-poker.com/odds.php ---> confuses me
Let me try to put this together:
Say you have a 1/4 chance of winning (or 25% chance of winning)
Now, a player bets $10. If you call, you can win $100. So this means you can win 10x your call right? So Pot-odds are 1/10, correct (10%)
Now...25% is a lot more than 10%. So...that means you should Call right because your chance of winning is higher than the Pot-odds??? Or is it visa-versa?
And in addition, if I do get it, can someone explain the logic behind it please?
Posted Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:40 am GMT by mangothebear
pot odds are 10:1, not 1/10. Its a ratio, not a fraction.
But your basic logic is correct.
What do you mean by explaining the "point"?
The point is that if you play out the same scenario a thousand times where you have correct pot odds to draw, then you will win a lot more than you will lose. If you don't have the right odds and make the call, in the long run, you will lose (even if you do get lucky and win a handful of times, this will not last).
The whole point of poker is to evaluate your chance of winning money accurately and to make the right decisions. It doesn't mean you'll win every hand, but in the long run, if you make better decisions than your opponents, you will take their money.
Posted Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:48 pm GMT by kiFF_aKa
I just put 1/10 so I could get a percentage, making it easier to compare the outs to the pot. But I guess I understand it now. By "point" I meant why do we do this? But you explained that in your last paragraph. Thank you. This is going to be hard to do in real games untill I can memorize everything lol.
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