Posted Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:00 am GMT by UrAteUp
Hey Gang,
I was playing in an SNG this weekend. First hand into the tournament I drew AK. Most everyone folded except 2 people who only put in a minimum bet. Being on the BB I push a large re-raise of 750 chips. One player folds and one calls. A nightmare comes out on the board, 96xo. Here is where I made my big mistake. By not betting large enough I allowed the other player to see the flop. I still felt I had the best hand and called All-in. Low and behold he had a 96o in his hand and hit the flop for 2 pair. Word of advice, never allow another player to see the flop if your playing AK. It will usually come back to haunt you.
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Posted Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 am GMT by Muck
How much was the buy-in?
What were the blinds?
What were the stacks?
If this was early in the tournament that raise looks huge.
Personally I’d raise about 4-5 times the BB.
Then continuation bet about 2/3 pot if the flop was rags.
If he comes back over the top I’d throw it away.
You said you called All-in, so he moved all-in and you called with Ace high?
Posted Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:03 am GMT by UrAteUp
This was the opening hand of a $3 SNG. Blinds were 20/40. Stacks were 2000 each. I know it was a drastic raise but it just seems like when the blinds are low it takes a larger then 4-5xBB calls to get someone to take notice. I still feel if I had bet all in pre-flop he would have folded.
Posted Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:54 am GMT by bluef0x
So if you would have went all-in he wold have folded, giving you an extra (whopping) 60-80 chips? Seriously, you don't need to get all excited with AK- it's still behind any pocket pair. Raise 3-5x BB and play the flop, that allows you to get out cheaply if your opponenet shows strength or the board is scary. With 2000 chips you have plenty of chances to get your beloved AK.
Your big mistake- putting in that preflop raise
Your bigger mistake- calling an all-in with nothing
Word of advice- Thinking AK is the nuts 24/7 will usually come back to haunt you
Next time raise 5x or maybe even 6x BB if you are so scared of having people in the hand... that other guy was a donkey but you played bad too, get him next time 
Posted Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:24 pm GMT by JiveTurkey
Hold on, you bet 750 into n 80 or 100 chip pot with AK, and you say you didn't bet hard enough? Are you for real?
Don't be scared of taking flops man. Keep the bets where you have some playability after the flop, instead of the only option being shove your stack when you hit, and fold when you don't.
A great deal of the money made in poker is made AFTER THE FLOP. Yeah, you misplayed the hell out of that hand, but not because you didn't move all in over two limpers.
Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:28 pm GMT by Jauron
Words of advice, if you get AK on the first hand of a tourney with your run of the mill players, pop it a little and get ready to fold on the flop.
People are nuts the first few hands of a tourney, nuts.
I've watched hands like J9 call an all in the first hand, it's like some people can't handle all the excitement that leads up to the start and therfore can't fold their hands.
I dread getting AK the first hand, to a strong raise I may even throw it away just because people are insane early. If it's limped to me I'll raise it around 6x the BB and toss it if I miss.
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:01 am GMT by Muck
I agree, the fact that it’s the first hand does influence the hand. I know it shouldn’t but it does.
I don’t know how to explain it. Sometime it’s a player trying to create a reputation, cashing in on that moment of anxiety and focus when players first sit down to buy a first impression.
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:51 am GMT by zinn0
I think I remember hearing Doyle say something once about big slick. Back in the texas road gambling days they used to call that hand "walking back to houston". I think the name is pretty self explanatory.
I played a small home tourney the other night. 1st hand, I get AKo on the button. Guy in MP raises 200 to go, btw, blinds were at 25/50. Folded to me I make it 600. Guy calls. Flop is J 3 6. He leads out for 500 chips, which was not really a small bet, but small compared to the pot. I HAD to fold. He showed AJ. Big slick, like pocket aces, doesn't garauntee you will win the pot. One of the biggest leaks I have fixed in my game, is letting go of a big hand, and listening to the little voive in your head when it is screaming, "YOU ARE BEAT." Also, I've said it before, but everytime I hear that little voice, it sounds exactly like Marcel Luske.
Posted Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:23 am GMT by UrAteUp
That was a hole in my game as well Zinno. Learning not to over play big slick or other AX hands. Funny my voice sounds like Phil Helmuth and makes me want to strangle it...lol.
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:19 pm GMT by Rocko4
I like to limp in with AKo for the most part, because if you think about it, it really isnt a strong hand compared to some others. Against AA, or KK, your nearly toast, but even against pocket 3's or low pocket pair, its a race. If you limp in though, your others wont necessarily put you on an A, and definetly not AK, so if you hit lightning on the flop, then you're all set from there. 
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:36 pm GMT by supafrey
and what happens when you get minraised after hitting a king on the flop with two other rags? you cry? 
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:42 pm GMT by zinn0
| Rocko4 wrote: | | I like to limp in with AKo for the most part, because if you think about it, it really isnt a strong hand compared to some others. Against AA, or KK, your nearly toast, but even against pocket 3's or low pocket pair, its a race. If you limp in though, your others wont necessarily put you on an A, and definetly not AK, so if you hit lightning on the flop, then you're all set from there. |
One of these days you will look back on this post and shake your head in disgust.
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:04 pm GMT by mikenike
yea.. i agree zinn.. i learned the hard way. TRUST ZINN
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:24 pm GMT by zinn0
| mikenike wrote: | | TRUST ZINN |
words to live by young one.
Posted Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:49 pm GMT by mikenike
all hail master.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:10 am GMT by Rocko4
Would you change your minds if I said limp in with AKo when playing limit? For the most part, I play limit, and I meant in limit games, limp in with AKo, but of course, not all the time... depends on the players, and I think its beneficial if you're playing in a fairly loose table. If you hit a big hand call the bets on the flop, gauge whether you should call or raise the turn based on the strength of hand/how many people are involved, and raise the river.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:45 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Rocko4 wrote: | | Would you change your minds if I said limp in with AKo when playing limit? For the most part, I play limit, and I meant in limit games, limp in with AKo, but of course, not all the time... depends on the players, and I think its beneficial if you're playing in a fairly loose table. If you hit a big hand call the bets on the flop, gauge whether you should call or raise the turn based on the strength of hand/how many people are involved, and raise the river. |
I couldn't find a single thing in this post I agree with, and I play limit all the time too.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:59 am GMT by supafrey
| Rocko4 wrote: | | Would you change your minds if I said limp in with AKo when playing limit? For the most part, I play limit, and I meant in limit games, limp in with AKo, but of course, not all the time... depends on the players, and I think its beneficial if you're playing in a fairly loose table. If you hit a big hand call the bets on the flop, gauge whether you should call or raise the turn based on the strength of hand/how many people are involved, and raise the river. |
I am solely a 3/6 player, pretty much, and I think this is one of the worst ways you could play AKo.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:36 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
In limit Poker in particular, never EVER just limp in with AK, suited or not. From one standpoint, you're right, it's much weaker than truly premium hands like AA, KK, and even QQ, but your pot equity is almost ALWAYS big enough that limping in with AK rather than raising is a fairly major error.
Sorry Rocko, but I concur with my colleagues... you have a major leak you need to plug right away. In limit, that's a horrible way to play AKo. I can see your point for NL, but NL is a much less technical and more artistic game.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:41 am GMT by tame_deuces
| Rocko4 wrote: | | I like to limp in with AKo for the most part, because if you think about it, it really isnt a strong hand compared to some others. Against AA, or KK, your nearly toast, but even against pocket 3's or low pocket pair, its a race. If you limp in though, your others wont necessarily put you on an A, and definetly not AK, so if you hit lightning on the flop, then you're all set from there. |
Are you aware of the fact that AK is actually a far better hand than a low pocket pair?
You can't just compare a hand with _one_ other hand and then make a decision about it. That's like saying KK sucks because it is a dog against AA. And you are not toast against KK with AK. You got an ace and your opponent is one king short in the deck.
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:18 pm GMT by zinn0
I was going through some old hand histories and found this little gem...my sneakiness bit me in the ass.
Hand #9173864-3905 at Abiquiu (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 25/Oct/05 23:26:09
mj333 is at seat 0 with $9.40.
hulei518 is at seat 1 with $25.
Will Rager is at seat 2 with $54.35.
zx321 is at seat 3 with $18.15.
Jakeees is at seat 4 with $15.70.
ken aces is at seat 5 with $24.75.
HustlingReb19 is at seat 6 with $25.75.
heres250 is at seat 7 with $27.50.
mteezy is at seat 8 with $38.65.
The button is at seat 8.
mj333 posts the small blind of $.10.
hulei518 posts the big blind of $.25.
mj333: -- --
hulei518: -- --
Will Rager: -- --
zx321: Ad Ks
Jakeees: -- --
ken aces: -- --
HustlingReb19: -- --
heres250: -- --
mteezy: -- --
Pre-flop:
Will Rager folds. zx321 calls. Jakeees calls. ken
aces folds. HustlingReb19 calls. heres250 folds.
mteezy calls. mj333 calls. hulei518 checks.
Flop (board: Qc Kh Ah):
mj333 checks. hulei518 checks. zx321 bets $2.
Jakeees folds. HustlingReb19 folds. mteezy calls.
mj333 folds. hulei518 folds.
Turn (board: Qc Kh Ah Ts):
zx321 checks. mteezy bets $3. zx321 calls.
River (board: Qc Kh Ah Ts 8h):
zx321 checks. mteezy bets $6. zx321 folds, showing
Ad Ks. mteezy is returned $6 (uncalled).
Posted Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:09 pm GMT by Rocko4
| Quote: | Are you aware of the fact that AK is actually a far better hand than a low pocket pair?
You can't just compare a hand with _one_ other hand and then make a decision about it. That's like saying KK sucks because it is a dog against AA. And you are not toast against KK with AK. You got an ace and your opponent is one king short in the deck. |
AK isnt a far better hand than a low pocket pair, in fact, preflop, pocket deuces is out in front. Check out this article written by Daniel Negreanu on AK.. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/strategy.php?subaction=showfull&id=1133641393&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
For the most part, he does say to play it aggressively preflop, but while it puts you in a powerful position, I think it also puts you in a precarious position. You undoubtebly dont want limpers to come into the flop with their suited connectors because they can too easily beat your AK, so I totally agree that playing it aggressively is beneficial. Yet I guess you also have to gauge the people at the table and see how many people are in the pot. Realistically, if its a pot of few people, it may be a decent move to limp in with it occasionally to mix up your game play, but as I see, it is definetly more worthwhile to play it aggressively.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:10 am GMT by tame_deuces
| Rocko4 wrote: | | AK isnt a far better hand than a low pocket pair. |
Ofcourse it is, saying something like that out of context is silly.
AK has 66% equity against a random hand.
44 has 57% equity against a random hand.
77 has about the same equity as AK against a random hand, 77 is not a low PP.
AAAAND....lets now look at a typical raising range for a player from MP....77 and better PPs,AT and better aces and KQo,KQs....
AK has 57% equity against this range...55 has 42% equity against this range.
And we haven't even mentioned that AK is an easier hand to play after the flop.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:00 pm GMT by UrAteUp
You know this one thing bothers me more then anything...that being the right or wrong way to play a hand. As the professions say...mix it up. There is no right or wrong way to play a hand. There is only profitable or non-profitable.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:32 pm GMT by supafrey
| UrAteUp wrote: | | You know this one thing bothers me more then anything...that being the right or wrong way to play a hand. As the professions say...mix it up. There is no right or wrong way to play a hand. There is only profitable or non-profitable. |
They don't say mix it up when they're not on tv or radio. That's when they're grinding their 200/400 and limping with AKo would be a killer leak.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:42 pm GMT by CodeNull
| Rocko4 wrote: |
AK isnt a far better hand than a low pocket pair, in fact, preflop, pocket deuces is out in front. |
This would be wonderful, if the game stopped preflop, however, every game I have ever played in, once the betting is over Pre, you have to see more cards.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:47 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| UrAteUp wrote: | | Funny my voice sounds like Phil Helmuth and makes me want to strangle it...lol. |
I like that! :D :D :D
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