SnG Chip Leader w/ pp6, would you call?? |
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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:56 pm GMT by pokerpup
Hi guys and gals,
Long time lurker. I was playing an SnG last night and made to the last 3. I was winning all the all-in's but I was always ahead going in. This hand really was the turning point of the game.
Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2005/08/29 - 23:56:33 (ET)
Table '11915247 2' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 3: shroomed (12022 in chips)
Seat 4: Comofinio (23694 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (31784 in chips)
shroomed: posts the ante 75
Comofinio: posts the ante 75
HERO: posts the ante 75
shroomed: posts small blind 600
Comofinio: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO  
HERO: raises 8400 to 9600
shroomed: folds
Comofinio: raises 14019 to 23619 and is all-in
HERO: calls 14019
*** FLOP ***   
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Comofinio: shows   (a flush, Queen high)
HERO: shows (a pair of Sixes)
Comofinio collected 48063 from pot
HERO said, "vnh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 48063 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 3: shroomed (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Comofinio (big blind) showed and won (48063) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 5: HERO (button) showed and lost with a pair of Sixes
Luck obviously plays a large part of the game, but I knew that he didn't really have a bigger/better hand than mine when he raised all-in. I had stole several blinds the previous hands and showed good hands down. Either way he's gotta be thinking a coin flip or underdog for me to be openning the betting out. But the question here is, as a significant chip leader should I have called the all-in? or wait for a better spot. I did have the correct read, but is worth it to take a shot at this point to eliminate him and take control of the table. All ideas are welcome as how you would play it. Thanks!
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Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:38 pm GMT by TheSalche
uhhh ... well first off ... theres no way i would raise EIGHT TIMES THE BIG BLIND with a small PP ... the only reason to raise that much is when 8xBB represents you're entire stack
i think its a lot better of an idea to raise maybe 3 or 4x BB and fold to a push ... with 6's, 90% of the time you're either dominated or flipping a coin ... if you had something like 10s, 9s or maybe 8s, i would definetly say call the push (since people will sometimes have a pushing range as big as A5+)
you've already got a good grip on the table right now, and you really arent a significant chip leader, if you double up the short stack he would barely become the new chip leader, if you double the other guy up, now he's got 75% of the chips at the table
that being said, since you have been raising a lot of pots, and taking a lot of blinds, keep being aggressive ... eventually you frustrate players enough to go all in with J6o ... then you've got their money
Posted Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:57 pm GMT by Dave B
i have no problem with the preflop raise or call. You have the chips, use them.
Blinds were huge.
Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:18 am GMT by Loonbat
| Dave B wrote: | i have no problem with the preflop raise or call. You have the chips, use them.
Blinds were huge. |
Agreed - the problem is that when you do have a hand calling you for that sort of raise, they usually have you beaten or have a coinflip.
Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:31 am GMT by 1988 TR
| pokerpup wrote: |
Luck obviously plays a large part of the game, but I knew that he didn't really have a bigger/better hand than mine when he raised all-in. |
I don't think you can correctly say you "knew" he didn't have a better hand than you. 33 through QQ could play the hand the same way this guy did - Maybe even AA or KK.
That being said, since the table was short handed, you can be agressive with 6's. I just feel the raise was too much. If you aren't going to lay down to an all in anyway, you should have just gone all in yourself.
Personally I would have raised a smaller amount.
Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:09 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I have to agree with TR and Salche. A smaller bet would have been best. Playing with only 3 people left and blinds that high I would go 2xBB. 3xBB if I was feeling aggressive. When he came over the top as strong as he did it would have been an easy laydown for me to make knowing I didn't have a large portion of my chips in the middle.
Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:15 pm GMT by pokerpup
| 1988 TR wrote: | | pokerpup wrote: |
Luck obviously plays a large part of the game, but I knew that he didn't really have a bigger/better hand than mine when he raised all-in. |
I don't think you can correctly say you "knew" he didn't have a better hand than you. 33 through QQ could play the hand the same way this guy did - Maybe even AA or KK.
That being said, since the table was short handed, you can be agressive with 6's. I just feel the raise was too much. If you aren't going to lay down to an all in anyway, you should have just gone all in yourself.
Personally I would have raised a smaller amount. |
I can see how the hand went wrong. The raise was quite a large amount for the size of the blinds. 3xBB would have probably chased out most players and its would constitute close of 20% of the second in chips and 40% of the short stack. But I can probably see the pp5 rerasing all-in anyways.
Borderline call, but my gut feeling was that I had him beat PF. I understand that I cannot "know" that I have been beat, but my gut feeling was to call with pp6 and you are gettting 2-to-1 on your money, but I wasn't so lucky in the end. I wonder if he could call an All-in bet PF? Cause that was my original plan when I saw pp6, but I restrained and thought a 8xBB would do the same as they would be pot committed if they called. But yes, I was trying to play the bully role and I am not sure if it backfired? Thanks for the reply.
Posted Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:24 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| pokerpup wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | pokerpup wrote: |
Luck obviously plays a large part of the game, but I knew that he didn't really have a bigger/better hand than mine when he raised all-in. |
I don't think you can correctly say you "knew" he didn't have a better hand than you. 33 through QQ could play the hand the same way this guy did - Maybe even AA or KK.
That being said, since the table was short handed, you can be agressive with 6's. I just feel the raise was too much. If you aren't going to lay down to an all in anyway, you should have just gone all in yourself.
Personally I would have raised a smaller amount. |
I can see how the hand went wrong. The raise was quite a large amount for the size of the blinds. 3xBB would have probably chased out most players and its would constitute close of 20% of the second in chips and 40% of the short stack. But I can probably see the pp5 rerasing all-in anyways.
Borderline call, but my gut feeling was that I had him beat PF. I understand that I cannot "know" that I have been beat, but my gut feeling was to call with pp6 and you are gettting 2-to-1 on your money, but I wasn't so lucky in the end. I wonder if he could call an All-in bet PF? Cause that was my original plan when I saw pp6, but I restrained and thought a 8xBB would do the same as they would be pot committed if they called. But yes, I was trying to play the bully role and I am not sure if it backfired? Thanks for the reply. |
I think if you are going to call a re-raise all in anyway, you should just go all in yourself. You are quite happy just taking down the pot pre flop, since anyone that calls *should* have you beat or you are a small favorite against overcards.
If you want to raise, 4x the BB seems about right here.
I would prefer the smaller raise so I wasn't committed to calling the re-raise all in.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:03 am GMT by Adam Marshall
Just based on pot odds, you'd always make the call there.
Your preflop betting aside, you were calling a 14K bet vs a 48K pot. Pot odds of 48 to 14, so around 3.5 to 1, you should call any hand where you think your chance of winning is 30% or better. So you should've called if you KNEW he had 55 and you had A5o or you KNEW he had AKs and you had 66. The only time where it wouldn't be correct is if you actually saw his cards and they were a pocket pair of 77 or better. Since you can never be sure, I think the chance over his possible range of hands makes this an automatic call.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been drinking tonight though, so excuse my possible math errors. I'll be interested to read this in the morning.
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