Street by Street SnG hand |
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Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:33 pm GMT by TheSalche
Here we go ... I'm gonna copy suited and post an SnG hand ... you tell me what you think I should've done, and I'll let you know what line I took and why.
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: extract (825)
Seat 2: ct22blue (555)
Seat 3: Big_Evv (770)
Seat 4: rz499 (815)
Seat 5: rock110 (705)
Seat 6: cra188 (775)
Seat 7: Harlito (775)
Seat 8: antonni95 (875)
Seat 9: TheSalche (710)
Seat 10: VonDutch66 (1195)
rock110 posts small blind (10)
cra188 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheSalche  
Harlito folds.
antonni95 folds.
TheSalche calls (15)
VonDutch66 calls (15)
extract folds.
ct22blue folds.
Big_Evv folds.
rz499 calls (15)
rock110 calls (5)
cra188 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** :   
rock110 bets (15)
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Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:44 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Oops - I am editing, thought you flopped a 4 flush also.
I would raise to 75 - I want to know where I am at.
Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:48 pm GMT by Skribbles
I would have raised about 3xBB, not based on hand strength, but because I wouldn't want to let the blinds in for free. You could already be behind with this flop if the blinds were holding 2 pair or they could have an open ended str8 draw with rags like 35 or 57.
I've gotten into the habit of "If I'm going to play a hand, I'm going to raise pre-flop". That way a situation like this does not arise as often.
But as played, I'd put out a bt of 75-100. If alot of action came out of the blinds I'd lay it down before getting too much invested. I wouldn't be too worried about the other limper. If he had anything like KQ or AK he would have re-raised you pre-flop. Without a read or pegging the guy as a complete fish playing K6 or K4 the only thing to worry about him holding would be a made set or a PP.
Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:01 pm GMT by DougisRad
I agree with Skribbles. I would say raise him with around a 3/4 pot sized bet.
Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:55 pm GMT by TheSalche
| Skribbles wrote: |
I've gotten into the habit of "If I'm going to play a hand, I'm going to raise pre-flop". That way a situation like this does not arise as often.
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True, the problem that I see with doing this is that I'm in early enough position that if I don't raise, somebody with AQ, AK, JJ+ are likely to raise, and then I can just let it go before I get into a big problem.
If I raise them, they probably won't reraise with some of the hands that dominate me.
I've gained enough confidence in my post-flop play to figure out when I'm beat.
Posted Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:31 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Based on the SN of 'rock...' I get the out of his way. 
I'd raise to 50 or so. I'd like to keep the pot on the small side but I don't want to play limit. Keeping the pot small here will make the rest of the hand easier to play.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:50 am GMT by TheSalche
fair enough ... keeping the pot small is a good idea, but i think it gives the guys drawing to the flush too good of odds, so i tried to push people out of the pot ... heres what actually happened
TheSalche raises (100) to 100
VonDutch66 calls (100)
rz499 calls (100)
rock110 calls (85)
** Dealing Turn ** : 
rock110 bets (80)
TheSalche ???
I think the play here is pretty obvious, but I'd still like to hear opinions.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:13 pm GMT by Skribbles
| TheSalche wrote: | fair enough ... keeping the pot small is a good idea, but i think it gives the guys drawing to the flush too good of odds, so i tried to push people out of the pot ... heres what actually happened
TheSalche raises (100) to 100
VonDutch66 calls (100)
rz499 calls (100)
rock110 calls (85)
** Dealing Turn ** :
rock110 bets (80)
TheSalche ???
I think the play here is pretty obvious, but I'd still like to hear opinions. |
Blind stayed in and hit trips?
You did pick up some outs. Another K for a full or a diamond for a flush assuming he hasn't filled up already.
Thats why you gotta raise pre-flop!
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:30 pm GMT by howzit
do not raise. just call w/ample odds.
if you improve to two pair. i would just call there. if you make the flush, raise.
if you don't, i will call if the price is decent.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:37 pm GMT by Odin
Why such a low bet? You came out firing 100 and he bets 80? Seems fishy, I'd say call and see fifth street if the guy is normally a solid player.
If he were a solid player and fearing the runner-runner flush he'd bet stronger (imo) to protect his set, if he had two pair and now just boated, he could just be trying to sweeten up that pot a little, hence the underbet. It wouldn't be easy as pie to put you on a king with two diamonds in your hand, but it would definitely run through my head.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:59 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Call.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:20 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I personally think the guy is on a flush draw (Spades) and the 80 bet is an attempt to see a cheap river.
I raise to 250 and find out.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:36 pm GMT by suitedaces84
What if he goes all-in over the top? If he hadn't picked up the flush draw I could see this. I'd really want to see a river here with as many outs as he's got.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:59 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | What if he goes all-in over the top? If he hadn't picked up the flush draw I could see this. I'd really want to see a river here with as many outs as he's got. |
I would lay it down to a big over the top bet. The guy could already have a boat - Giving him only 2 outs.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:10 pm GMT by TheSalche
so i called, figuring if i raised all it would do is build the pot, and make me pot commited by the river to call anything ... i'm still putting the blind on a spade flush draw ... even a fish would realize that somebody is going to bet if they have a full boat right now, they would go for a check-raise ... everything about this hand says that there's at least one or two guys drawing for a flush, and the other guy probably has a pair, maybe trips ... i think theres a good chance that i'm still ahead here, and if not, i have plenty of outs, and i'm getting amazing pot odds
TheSalche calls (80)
VonDutch66 calls (80)
rz499 calls (80)
** Dealing River ** : 
rock110 checks.
TheSalche ???
So I made my flush, 2nd best card that could come (kings full would be nice) ... the real question is here how much to bet?
Skribbles, I still don't know if raising from EP with such a weak hand is a great idea. It pot commits me too early, and the vast majority of the time I'm going to miss the flop, and even if I do hit it, I'm going to have to make a decent sized bet (half the pot) which is at least 100 more chips.
Odin - chances are the guy in the blind is a TOTAL donk ... that turn bet definetly tells me he doesn't know what he's doing, and I would bet plenty of money that he had a spade flush draw.
TR - don't think that raising is the best idea ... it pot commits me, and if they didn't fold on the flop to a raise, I doubt I'm going to lose more than one of them on the turn. Even if I raised all in, I'd get called by a spade flush draw.
Suited - all in over the top? Way too early for that, I'd rather call this and fold to a decent sized raised, and fight my way back.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:43 pm GMT by Skribbles
| TheSalche wrote: |
Skribbles, I still don't know if raising from EP with such a weak hand is a great idea. It pot commits me too early, and the vast majority of the time I'm going to miss the flop, and even if I do hit it, I'm going to have to make a decent sized bet (half the pot) which is at least 100 more chips.
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I'm not saying a raise big enough to pot commit you. Just a 3xBB raise so that the blinds aren't in for free. If raising it to 50-60 pre-flop and consider yourself pot commited, you got some commitment issues.
Say you had raised to 60 pre-flop and got one caller. Well the pot is still only going to be 145 assuming one of the blinds wasn't the caller. A bet of 100 is 2/3 the pot which is the same bet you made here on the flop.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:48 pm GMT by Skribbles
What to bet on the river depends if you are going to call if he goes over the top. If you plan on folding to a push then I'd fire out about 200 which still gives you some breathing room to fold. If you're going to call a push, bet out 300-350.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:45 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| TheSalche wrote: |
TR - don't think that raising is the best idea ... it pot commits me, and if they didn't fold on the flop to a raise, I doubt I'm going to lose more than one of them on the turn. Even if I raised all in, I'd get called by a spade flush draw.
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If you would get called by a spade flush draw, you should have gone all in on the turn! Only 8 outs.
I think you had a nice hand there, with good back up. Just calling gives me no information.....
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:45 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| TheSalche wrote: | | Suited - all in over the top? Way too early for that, I'd rather call this and fold to a decent sized raised, and fight my way back. |
I said "what if he goes all-in over the top of a turn raise?" It would suck to have to fold on the turn.
Posted Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:47 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | TheSalche wrote: | | Suited - all in over the top? Way too early for that, I'd rather call this and fold to a decent sized raised, and fight my way back. |
I said "what if he goes all-in over the top of a turn raise?" It would suck to have to fold on the turn. |
I don't think it would suck too bad to fold on the turn. You could be playing for a 2 outer or a 1 outer if someone else is in there with a K.
Posted Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:49 am GMT by MrDarling
So how did this finished?
Posted Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:01 am GMT by zinn0
| MrDarling wrote: | | So how did this finished? |
Are you serious?
I doubt OP even remembers this hand...
Posted Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:15 pm GMT by MrDarling
lol.
I was searching through old topics and didn't even notice the original posting date of this hand 
Posted Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:27 pm GMT by TheSalche
i know i won the hand ... i think i bet something smallish (200?) and he called or folded ...
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