Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:02 pm GMT by Pokz
heya, I'm kinda new to the forums, been reading on them a ton but not posting until now. I've learned a ton and I want to improve even more yet.
I was just over an hour into a $2 MTT sittin just under average when dealt Aces in big blind with one caller and small blind just calling. We all know how the rest goes.
Any help on where I mis-played this hand would be appreciated. I'm thinking my bet on the flop was too weak, but I didn't want to risk attempting a check raise and have him check to the turn as I was UTG.
There are people on this forum with seemingly endless knowledge, so I'm here for help.
PokerStars Game #2520656081: Tournament #12088685, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/09/07 - 15:50:15 (ET)
Table '12088685 61' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: vvvjay (2430 in chips)
Seat 2: Pokz (3100 in chips)
Seat 3: seppjones (3015 in chips)
Seat 4: zoomboy (5470 in chips)
Seat 5: xxxk-martxxx (3740 in chips)
Seat 6: top50inreno (4925 in chips)
Seat 7: BigDaddyJim (810 in chips)
Seat 8: kimandjustin (4835 in chips)
Seat 9: randallboy (6590 in chips)
vvvjay: posts small blind 75
Pokz: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pokz  
seppjones: folds
zoomboy: calls 150
xxxk-martxxx: calls 150
top50inreno: folds
BigDaddyJim: folds
kimandjustin: folds
randallboy: folds
vvvjay: folds
Pokz: raises 450 to 600
zoomboy: calls 450
xxxk-martxxx: folds
*** FLOP ***   
Pokz: bets 600
zoomboy: calls 600
*** TURN *** 
Pokz: bets 1900 and is all-in
zoomboy: calls 1900
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Pokz: shows (two pair, Aces and Fives)
zoomboy: shows   (three of a kind, Fives)
zoomboy collected 6425 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6425 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: vvvjay (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Pokz (big blind) showed and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 3: seppjones folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: zoomboy showed and won (6425) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 5: xxxk-martxxx folded before Flop
Seat 6: top50inreno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: BigDaddyJim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: kimandjustin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: randallboy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
BTW, you guys will hopefully see me more active on here, great group of guys.
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Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:30 pm GMT by Skribbles
Welcome to the forums.
As for the hand, you got taken by a moron.
Pre-flop: I would have bumped it to between 800-1000. But you did get want you normally want with AA, just one caller.
Flop: You need to make a bigger bet. Pot was aprox. 1400 and you only bet 600 giving him about 4:1 odds to call which is good for him.
Turn: Good push.
Summary: You got screwed. Your play was good, maybe could have bet a bit more pre and post flop, and he was not going to fold this hand. He had his flush draw which is what every fish/moron/idiot loves and won't fold. You could have pushed all-in on the flop and he would still have called.
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:39 pm GMT by Nut Flush
Not much you can do there, in a $2 MTT people make loose calls like that all the time to a big preflop raise. And they 95% of the time call any size bet if they have a flush draw. You could have bet more on the flop, but I'm fairly certain he would have called anyway. Once he caught the 5 on the turn, he wasn't going anywhere.
Keep your chin up, you got your money in with the best hand and got sucked out on 
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:10 pm GMT by DougisRad
| Skribbles wrote: | Welcome to the forums.
As for the hand, you got taken by a moron.
Pre-flop: I would have bumped it to between 800-1000. But you did get want you normally want with AA, just one caller.
Flop: You need to make a bigger bet. Pot was aprox. 1400 and you only bet 600 giving him about 4:1 odds to call which is good for him.
Turn: Good push.
Summary: You got screwed. Your play was good, maybe could have bet a bit more pre and post flop, and he was not going to fold this hand. He had his flush draw which is what every fish/moron/idiot loves and won't fold. You could have pushed all-in on the flop and he would still have called. |
Everything Skribbles said is right on, except for one minor detail.
Skribbs, I love your advice on here, and I know you'd own me at a poker table, but the pot odds were 3.3:1, which should be closer to 3:1 than 4:1 
Don't take offense, I'm just anal about odds.
As Skribbs said, this guy was a moron, and hit runner-runner (the last one being a 2-outer) to beat you. If you can, add him as a buddy as you'll make a crapton of money off him.
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:14 pm GMT by Loonbat
BAH is all I can say.
I like the preflop bump, making it 4 BBs to play. The initial flop bet was a little smallish ... probably would have gone with a 2/3rds, 900 to 1000 chips, bet. The turn push was good, and the donkey sucked out on you.
And the problem with Skribbles doing the quick odds conversion was that he was thinking in terms of Canadian dollars, not real money
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:20 pm GMT by Skribbles
| Loonbat wrote: |
And the problem with Skribbles doing the quick odds conversion was that he was thinking in terms of Canadian dollars, not real money |
And to think I was going to transfer you $1000 of my dollars since I was doing so well lately. I guess if its not real I don't have to worry about. 
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:34 pm GMT by Loonbat
| Skribbles wrote: | | Loonbat wrote: |
And the problem with Skribbles doing the quick odds conversion was that he was thinking in terms of Canadian dollars, not real money |
And to think I was going to transfer you $1000 of my dollars since I was doing so well lately. I guess if its not real I don't have to worry about. |
So, $1000 Canadian is about what - $175 US Dollars??
I'll take it ... I've been playing like a donkey lately. Remember ... Loonbat at Pokerstars.
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:59 pm GMT by Skribbles
Rings a bell.... I think I may be depositing there again soon. I miss the MTT action. Party sucks balls for tournys.
Posted Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:01 pm GMT by Pokz
thanks guys. Just a few questions about betting the flop...
The size of bet I will be placing under different situations is still just trial and error for me with no sound reasoning behind my bets and I'm sure will come with experience but...
When is it "theoretically sound" to make a pot sized bet. (I'm thinking this is an AKo preflop raise with 1 or 2 callers and you're UTG ot checked to on the flop when nothing hits ex. 7c - 2d - 9c . possibly to test the flush draw and hopefully not run into a pocket pair? I don't see a straight draw threat with preflop raise of 4-5BB) hopefully to take the pot down right there? if the turn doesn't improve your hand check it to the river?
... 1/2 pot sized bet (UTG or checked to after preflop raise of 4-5BB. You hold nut flush draw or nut straight draw or high overpair?)
... is it wise to check two high overcards (AK) on the flop after a preflop raise with no straight or flush draws for you? or are you almost always looking to put some pressure on the other players?
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:09 am GMT by supafrey
The pressure you are talking about is called a continuation bet. If you are playing even semi-tight at a table, and getting even SOME respect, I like to continuation bet about 80-90% of the time. If you're playing relatively tight, they WILL respect the flop bet most of the time, and will check to you for your bet, or you can bet in earlier position. Either way, bet and fold if tested. (Mix it up occasionally, but this is usually sound)
A continuation bet from 1/2 to 4/5 of the pot (max) is usually fine.
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:40 am GMT by Loonbat
A couple things:
A continuation bet shouldn't be committing you to the pot. A bet of 1/3 to 1/2 is fine. I wouldn't go much higher with these. Evaluate the board, though. Is the texture such that it missed everyone and you do have the best hand? Were your opponents calling on mid PPs? Are they likely to lay these down?
Pot size bets (or those nearly pot-sized) should be reserved for when you believe you have the best hand, but wish to chase drawing hands out - for example, the flop puts 2 of a suit or a str8 possibility out. By placing this size bet, you give improper odds for the drawing hand to call. When they mistakenly call, you've been given a positive expected value. By underbetting into a pot against an opponent on a draw, you may give them the odds they need to call.
Mix it up - good advice. A certain size bet should never give your opponents information about your holdings. Never consistently bet 1/2 the pot as a continuation (or probe) bet. Never consistently bet pot size on top pair or overpair. Never consistently do anything!
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