Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:25 am GMT by KingKory
...why can't I do it?
.50/$1 NL
I'm UTG with $68 K  K 
I make it $4 to go.
Button-1 calls.
Flop comes:
A  7 3
What do you do?
How do you convince yourself that he has the Ace?
EDIT: Long-time troll, first-time poster 
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Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:50 am GMT by Loonbat
$9.50 in the pot - bet about $4.50 and see what happens. If he just calls, then the turn is an issue.
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:50 am GMT by Muck
With the limited information available I’d just make a probe bet of about $6. If he comes over the top lay it down. If he just calls try to get to the showdown as cheaply as possible.
NB: I think you mean a lurker. A troll is a person who starts arguments
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:50 am GMT by Skribbles
Fire out a decent sized bet and see what happens. If you bet out 2/3 of the pot or the pot, you'll find out pretty quick if he has it. If he re-raises, fold. If he calls then he has you beat with that board and I'd just check it to him on the turn unless a K comes.
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:02 am GMT by Loonbat
| Skribbles wrote: | | Fire out a decent sized bet and see what happens. If you bet out 2/3 of the pot or the pot, you'll find out pretty quick if he has it. If he re-raises, fold. If he calls then he has you beat with that board and I'd just check it to him on the turn unless a K comes. |
Too big a probe bet - BAD donkey!
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:16 pm GMT by Skribbles
It may be a big enough probe bet to make the guy lay down a weak ace. Of course the typical fish won't... but you never know.
Posted Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:27 pm GMT by Geno
With an ace up and you on Kings, it's not that hard a lay down after the right bet. The hard time is when the flop is Q75, you raise and get re-raised for all your chips and it becomes hard to put him on a set and lay it down!
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:20 am GMT by TheSalche
more interesting laydown is if the board comes with a 2 flush and you wonder if he has an ace, or if hes drawing to the flush?
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:42 am GMT by tame_deuces
| TheSalche wrote: | | more interesting laydown is if the board comes with a 2 flush and you wonder if he has an ace, or if hes drawing to the flush? |
Or even worse...both. 
Posted Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:30 am GMT by Ciso_B
| Quote: | How do you convince yourself that he has the Ace?
|
Bet and if re raises fold maybe ?Pretty standard.Its highly unlikely he will re raise without it cos you were the pre flop agressor so hes likely to think you could be holding an Ace.
Posted Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:28 am GMT by zinn0
If I raise preflop, I'm betting the flop no matter what comes. Say I have a wired pair of 9s, and the flop is A 6 7, I'm betting. A lot of people will call a raise with sutied connectors, K Q, almost anything. They don't know you don't have the Ace, fire away, just be wary if you are raised. I will bet between 1/2 to 2/3 the pot. If you get a caller, do as the others have advised. Try to get to the showdown cheap.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:19 pm GMT by Moon_Child
love what everyone is saying about this hand. Ace is scary card isn't it, lol :D
Posted Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:35 pm GMT by KingKory
Ah, sorry it's been awhile since I've revisited.
Thought I'd let everyone know how this travesty ended.
The turn came Q 
I tried a check-raise.
I checked to him.
He came in for $6.
I made it $12 to go.
He re-raised me all of his chips ($38 ).
I - after being shown in big bright lights that he has an ace - decide to go ahead and pay him off.
He turns over A 10 , and takes the pot down.
The kings are just very tough for me to let go; I'm getting much better though.
Great tips, too!
Next time I'll nix the check-raise. It turned a $6 probing bet into a $12 probing bet.
Though it did do the trick in telling me that he had the Ace. If I decided to pay attention to reason, the check-raise wouldn't have been the worst move ever.
Posted Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:07 pm GMT by Jauron
Next time you get it, fold it preflop. After that folding it on the flop wont' be so hard. 
Posted Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:08 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
I've questioned this situation many times, but more the scenario if you are OOP/First to act. I was involved in a live MTT and got wired 9's. I raised pre-flop from UTG+2. The only caller was the SB and we were good to go.
Flop:
A 6 4
So no real draws unless he is a maniac and called pre-flop raise with 5 7 or 2 3.
I was out of position and wanted to see if he had that Ace. The only problem is that it was late in the tournament and I wasn't short stacked, but I also was far from the chip leader. I had more chips than Villain.
I led out for 1.5xBB and then he raised All-In. I wasn't ready to go out of that tournament yet, so I gave him credit and folded.
Did I play this wrong? Should I have checked to him to see if he bet out, and if he did just fold? I actually lost a decent amount of chips on that hand and wondering what the best way to save chips yet play your pocket pair.
Posted Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:52 am GMT by Jauron
| Dat_Dude wrote: | I've questioned this situation many times, but more the scenario if you are OOP/First to act. I was involved in a live MTT and got wired 9's. I raised pre-flop from UTG+2. The only caller was the SB and we were good to go.
Flop:
A 6 4
So no real draws unless he is a maniac and called pre-flop raise with 5 7 or 2 3.
I was out of position and wanted to see if he had that Ace. The only problem is that it was late in the tournament and I wasn't short stacked, but I also was far from the chip leader. I had more chips than Villain.
I led out for 1.5xBB and then he raised All-In. I wasn't ready to go out of that tournament yet, so I gave him credit and folded.
Did I play this wrong? Should I have checked to him to see if he bet out, and if he did just fold? I actually lost a decent amount of chips on that hand and wondering what the best way to save chips yet play your pocket pair. |
Out of position to the SB? How is this possible?
Outside that if you are first to act, you have to represent the ace, betting less than your preflop bet is not the way to do that. Bet like you have it, or check, he either has a big hand or smelled your weakness but either way you have to fold.
Posted Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:03 am GMT by snoogins47
| Dat_Dude wrote: | I've questioned this situation many times, but more the scenario if you are OOP/First to act. I was involved in a live MTT and got wired 9's. I raised pre-flop from UTG+2. The only caller was the SB and we were good to go.
Flop:
A 6 4
So no real draws unless he is a maniac and called pre-flop raise with 5 7 or 2 3.
I was out of position and wanted to see if he had that Ace. The only problem is that it was late in the tournament and I wasn't short stacked, but I also was far from the chip leader. I had more chips than Villain.
I led out for 1.5xBB and then he raised All-In. I wasn't ready to go out of that tournament yet, so I gave him credit and folded.
Did I play this wrong? Should I have checked to him to see if he bet out, and if he did just fold? I actually lost a decent amount of chips on that hand and wondering what the best way to save chips yet play your pocket pair. |
You bet, roughly what you usually bet on the flop after raising preflop. If he calls or raises, you look into his soul and find out what he has. He'll fold a lot.
Posted Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:14 am GMT by pokerbrat0582
Your kings are only good PF. If an ace hits you have to think that someone called with ace anything. People see an ace and think it s good and most of the time it will be unless someone else called with a higher ace. You have to act like you have that ace so bet the pot if he raises you fold unless the turn helps you.
Posted Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:52 am GMT by AHBrownell
Basically the way to play KK or QQ if overcards hit is the same.
Remember your opponent is making decisions based on incomplete information. You raised preflop. According to how you have played up to this point - you are representing - AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, and maybe AJ. If the flop comes with overcards and you make a typical bet (as if you hit the flop) then your opponent cannot know that you have KK or QQ. Lets say he called with a hand like AQ - if the board comes A72 and you bet aggressively on the flop/turn its going to be very difficult for him to call you down. He may still do it - but its far better to bet and win the hand some of the time, then to check/fold KK or QQ every time overs hit...
Posted Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:10 am GMT by greathuskie
| AHBrownell wrote: | Basically the way to play KK or QQ if overcards hit is the same.
Remember your opponent is making decisions based on incomplete information. You raised preflop. According to how you have played up to this point - you are representing - AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, and maybe AJ. If the flop comes with overcards and you make a typical bet (as if you hit the flop) then your opponent cannot know that you have KK or QQ. Lets say he called with a hand like AQ - if the board comes A72 and you bet aggressively on the flop/turn its going to be very difficult for him to call you down. He may still do it - but its far better to bet and win the hand some of the time, then to check/fold KK or QQ every time overs hit... |
where do you play poker? where i play if someone has Ax and hit an ace on the flop, good luck getting them to fold
Posted Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:30 am GMT by AHBrownell
Well your image may be part of it. I play rock tight - I mean ROCKY, eye of the tiger, tight.
But if you are actually curious. I recommend playing on Pokerstars, Party Poker, or Hollywood Poker (or affiliates).
I'm getting to point where I can really screw with ppl after the flop and feel pretty comfortable. I mix up my play on the flop with top pair often enough that people are usually scared to call me to the river. Additionally, I'm not afraid to "fire three bullets" with these hands if I think my opponent called with something under AK.
Lastly, its important to note that you will fold these hands often after the flop. If you are reraised you are done with it. I think a lot of people mistake playing aggressively with throwing money into a pot when you know you are beat. I may need to adjust my play at higher limits - but as it stands I just don't call reraises unless I have A) lots of outs or B) at least two pair. Period. Top pair does not justify calling reraises. So if thats your general rule - its easy to get away from these hands when you are beat - but you still need to be aggressive and pick up some pots you do not deserve... but earn.
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:29 pm GMT by BBQSquirrel
| Muck wrote: | | ...... If he just calls try to get to the showdown as cheaply as possible...... |
Can someone elaborate? Without position, if you just check the turn/river you are basically inviting your opponent to "bet hard and take the pot away from me".
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