Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:44 am GMT by screwthepooch
Typical heads-up player, nothing overly exciting, not too aggressive, not too passive...about 34 hands in, I'm leading 1640 to 1360, the following happens:
FullTiltPoker Game #212137010: $100 + $5 Heads Up Sit & Go (1344915), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:39:28 ET - 2005/09/09
Seat 1: gbnd45 (1,360)
Seat 2: ScrewThePooch (1,640)
gbnd45 posts the small blind of 15
ScrewThePooch posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScrewThePooch  
gbnd45 calls 15
ScrewThePooch raises to 100
gbnd45 raises to 1,360, and is all in
What should I do?
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Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:53 am GMT by Geno
Given your reads on him so far, I would personally fold it there and win later on instead with 57o on a A57 flop 
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:56 am GMT by Ninja
I'd say throw it away. Although the probability is much lower in heads-up, it is still likely that he will only go all-in with A+face or 10's and up. I'm not too aggressive heads-up, but I would fold and wait for a better hand to push in on.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:02 pm GMT by Nut Flush
That's a huge raise and one that would definitely make me stop and think "What the heck is he raising so much for?". But, I'd have to fold before I convinced myself to call.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:28 pm GMT by screwthepooch
| Ninja wrote: | | I'd say throw it away. Although the probability is much lower in heads-up, it is still likely that he will only go all-in with A+face or 10's and up. I'm not too aggressive heads-up, but I would fold and wait for a better hand to push in on. |
Can you really put him on that good of a hand though, when he just called the blind? It wasn't until I raised to 100 that he woke up and went all-in.
I've played a lot of heads-up and can safely say that I have rarely seen someone just call the blind with Ace-High or High pocket pair...unless the blinds are really steep like 50-100.
What do you put him on with a weak call of the BB and then a sudden all-in?
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:37 pm GMT by crack
Is this the first time he has done it?
If it is then I'd be worried. However your ATo is hardly a monster and seeing as the blinds are so small, you can easily fold this and wait for a better opportunity to take this guys money.
You don't think this guy would limp reraise you with a worse hand? Remember a PP is favourite here also.
Nah, I stand by what I said. with the blinds so small, you don't need to gamble here. Muck this hand and own him later.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:37 pm GMT by Ninja
Sorry, I didn't notice the call first  , but he could easily be slow-playing. At the same time, he could be trying to force you out (not for many chips though). I think I would still fold it, but I'd be much more likely to call if he had re-raised all-in right off the bat. Tough call, tough fold. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place here, it seems. Nevertheless, I think I would rather take the small loss, and live to play another day (especially when I was playing for $100!).
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:54 pm GMT by screwthepooch
I did stop and think about his weak call and then re-raise all-in...
Normally, I'm with you all, I quickly think one thing...I have only A10 and all he has to have to beat me is AJ or better.
Here's what I decided:
I'm ahead of the guy by about 2-300 chips. Not much big action yet except for the fact that I'm ahead.
I would never put him on 10,10 or higher because frankly I've never seen someone slow-play that kind of hand at blinds this low.
Mostly, I put him on small pocket pair because I could see myself making the same move. If I have pocket 4's for example, I don't play them aggressively because it's really amateur hour to do so (meaning no raise to 100 or something..because when the flop comes over-cards which will be every time, you're now kind of stuck). However, if someone wants to raise into me 100, I will sometimes push back because I would figure the guy for Ace High raising like that (or 2 big cards) and figure I am slight favorite and he will likely fold...
So, I give him possible credit for small pocket pair in which case we're about 50/50...
However, I also thought it quite possible he has Ace Shitty and just decided to say "F-U".
So, I put about 15-20% chance that he didn't want to be pushed around and either had Ace shitty or 2 high cards (which makes me a favorite) or 80-85% he had a small pair which makes us about even.
Long and short of it, I called his all-in:
FullTiltPoker Game #212137010: $100 + $5 Heads Up Sit & Go (1344915), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:39:28 ET - 2005/09/09
Seat 1: gbnd45 (1,360)
Seat 2: ScrewThePooch (1,640)
gbnd45 posts the small blind of 15
ScrewThePooch posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScrewThePooch
gbnd45 calls 15
ScrewThePooch raises to 100
gbnd45 raises to 1,360, and is all in
ScrewThePooch calls 1,260
gbnd45 shows  
ScrewThePooch shows
*** FLOP ***   
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
gbnd45 shows a pair of Fours
ScrewThePooch shows a pair of Fours
ScrewThePooch wins the pot (2,720) with a pair of Fours
gbnd45 stands up
ScrewThePooch stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,720 | Rake 0
Board:
Seat 1: gbnd45 (small blind) showed and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 2: ScrewThePooch (big blind) showed and won (2,720) with a pair of Fours
I think that me paying more attention to the betting action leading up to a move is helping me become more intuitive. This hand was just one example of me making better decisions recently. This is what 1988 TR does on a daily basis...that bastard!
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:03 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I don't know.... Sometimes I have just called the blind with a monster (Slow playing) and got raised & then I just pushed when I found out the guy had a hand. So don't be surprised if they show you a monster.
I don't know man..... I probably call here because I'm a calling station, but an arguement could certainly be made to fold - You are behind a lot of hands and dominated by several more. If the guy has something like KQ, you are not favored by much.....
Ugh, I dunno - This one would be totally dependent on any kind of read I had on my opponent and my general mood at that moment. lol
Sorry I can't say more, but some poker situations you just have to go with your gut.... There isn't always a clear cut solution.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:36 pm GMT by crack
I see what you are saying pooch, however the stacks are deep compared to blinds, there is a lot of play left in this game. If I am playing HU sngs anyway I would be very confident in my game that I would not need to make this move so early on. I would like to think I can outplay my opponent in the majority of the hands I play against him which means I will not need to make this call until perhaps later on when the blinds are bigger?
Does that make sense? I can't think how to word it better.
I think making this call the majority of the time is going to be a -Ev move unless you know the player well enough to be confident in your read. With 34 hands and not seeing him make that move before I couldn't be confident in my read.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:42 pm GMT by Dave B
Heads up is so goofy.
I have a question though, have you been raising nearly all the pot? I use the call, then all in move a lot against aggressive players. If everytime I limp, they raise then I fold fold fold fold call wait for the raise and smack the crap out of them. It works great.
I would want to have something better than A5 though, but if blinds are high enough, I would do this with any Ace against an aggressive player, especially if I am getting short stacked.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:03 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Thanks for the interesting post. Just goes to show me I still have a TON to learn about this dang game... and I've been playing almost nightly for three years. Sheesh.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:26 pm GMT by screwthepooch
| crack wrote: | I see what you are saying pooch, however the stacks are deep compared to blinds, there is a lot of play left in this game. If I am playing HU sngs anyway I would be very confident in my game that I would not need to make this move so early on. I would like to think I can outplay my opponent in the majority of the hands I play against him which means I will not need to make this call until perhaps later on when the blinds are bigger?
Does that make sense? I can't think how to word it better.
I think making this call the majority of the time is going to be a -Ev move unless you know the player well enough to be confident in your read. With 34 hands and not seeing him make that move before I couldn't be confident in my read. |
crack,
It's not that I would make this call in every time. However, I did have the "feeling" that based on this guy's action up to then that it smelled like the "F-U, I have pocket 4's or an Ace" type of situation. Part of my thinking is based on a read of the tone of the game to that point which is hard to show in a post like this, but the biggest part that played into it is that weak call and then waking up after I raised. I am a somewhat aggressive player and will raise a lot with decent cards, so it's possible that he got tired of my raising.
Just checked my history and I raised pre-flop 9 times out of 34 hands compared to him raising 7 times.
Perhaps what also comes into play here is that I am suspicious when a guy wants to throw that many chips at me with the blinds still small and he is only committed for 30 chips.
Basically, when you add it all up, it just smelled like I had him beat or was at least close to 50/50. I do agree with other posters that you could wait for a better situation especially if you believe you are more skilled. However, if I smell a weak play where I think I can save time and take it home now, I'm gonna take it. Time is money after all 
I'm not always going to make this same play, especially if the tone is way different. For example, I played this ultra-aggressive guy for $100 earlier last night and even though I suspected he was raising often times with nothing better than two high cards, I chose to fold in a similar situation (I think I had A9 and had raised to 60...he came over the top to 180 and I folded). With him, I wanted to make sure I had a strong enough hand. Eventually he ran into my AA and it crippled him.
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:32 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Just make sure to always call with A  2
hehe
Sorry about that one.... 
Posted Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:41 pm GMT by screwthepooch
| 1988 TR wrote: | Just make sure to always call with A 2
hehe
Sorry about that one.... |
Yeah, that's the last time I listen to your advice when you just want to get going...
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