Posted Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:58 am GMT by tame_deuces
Low buy-in Freezeout MTT (2$)
*edit*
I ask these question because I'm curious about pre-flop call-odds, and applying them in tournaments.
I'll tell you what I did and what happened later. 
1.)
Bigstacked with 109,000 chips
Blinds 2000-4000
In the BB with Q9s
Button min-raises to 8000, he has about 50,000 in chips
SB folds
My read says he is too solid to min-raise unless he has a killer hand.
Call or fold?
2.)
Medium to big stack with 50,000 chips
Blinds 500-1000
87s on the BB
MP min-raises to 2000. Has about 20,000
Folds to me.
Read says he is a donk, and is most likely to go all-in on the flop nomatter the hand.
Call or fold?
3.)
Bigstacked with about 90,000 chips
Blinds 3000-6000
On the button with A9s
Raise to 24,000 for a steal
SB folds
BB goes all in with 44,000 chips
Read says he is pretty solid, but somewhat weak. Would fold a questionable hand.
Call or fold?
*edit* And was it stupid to raise 24,000 in the first place? The SB had even less stack than the BB. Should I have bet their stack?
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Posted Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:19 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
1 & 2 i would fold,
in 3 i would probably call
but depends if u tried to steal before , generally u might want to avoid stealing from button since a lot of people will put u on steal from there.
Posted Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:35 am GMT by zeroswarm
I would call 1 and 2, fold 3.
1. u got lots of chips and already have 4000 in the pot. Big stacked, u can afford to see the flop.
2. Again I'd only call this cause u can afford it. Who knows, u might flop a straight or something.
3. No way I'd get involved here. Much too expensive.
Posted Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:59 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Well, I don't generally fold to min-raises when my stack is decent, but I notice it can bleed chips not to do so in a tournament. I'm also abit puzzled by preflop call-odds. They often seem calculated based on a hand's chance of being ahead by the river, but in NL tourneys it often seems to me a hand has to be ahead on the flop, or atleast gain a fair number of outs to be worth bluffing with.
As for hand 1&2, raising and muscling them out pre-flop was not an option, I was pretty confident I was behind in both hands and needed to hit the flop hard to win in both cases.
1.) I call
Flop comes 3-Q-Q. As I said, I put him on a killer hand here. He also knows I will quite likely take a stab at most pots against him. So I bet, he pushes, I call. He flips AA. I even hit the fourth Q on the turn.
2.) I call
Flop comes 5 - 8 - 8. I check, he pushes (as always). I call. He flips QQ and doesn't improve.
3.) Now this was a tough one. I have to call 20,000 into a 71,000 pot, which statistically should be wise unless he holds AA (am I right?). Still, I had to think a long time about this one. In the end I called, if I won I would almost be guaranteed to win the tournament, if I lost, I still have a fighting chance. If I had folded I would still have been one of the three biggest stacks at the final table.
I called, he flips 99 and no A appears to save the day. 2 orbits later I bust when UTG busts my AKs in the BB with his QQ. So naturally my call and original raise here is the main issue for me. Anyone think it was donk play? Or usable play?
And to answer the steal question, no I don't steal too often when I'm bigstacked. In low buy-in MTTs I think it is wise to have a hand to show down, as people will often move in on you with KX or AX type hands.
Posted Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:11 pm GMT by Ninja
1. fold
2. call
3. call
explanations later
Posted Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:53 am GMT by Skribbles
1) Fold
2) Fold
3) So he is a solid / weak player??? Doesn't make sense.
- Solid - Fold
- Weak - Call
Posted Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:24 am GMT by tame_deuces
| Skribbles wrote: | | 3) So he is a solid / weak player??? Doesn't make sense. |
Didn't quite think it through when I wrote it I guess. He is one of those types you run into all the time on low stakes. They know their starting hands and position, but they're often bullied around by aggressive players.
Posted Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:24 am GMT by Skribbles
Either way, unless he is a complete moron, I fold here. I try not to risk almost half my stack with A9s.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:34 am GMT by ViperX883
1. I call here. If you put him on a big hand like AA, then you are going to get payed off on a lucky flop, just like you did. If not, you only lost 4K more and you are still in perfect shape. Pure pot odds demand the call here.
2. I call here, too. Even in the worst case scenario, which is something like a big overpair or 9Ts, you are at least 25% to win the pot. 78s is a dynamic, creative hand and if you fold here I think you lack imagination.
3. I fold this one. I think the steal attempt is fine, but you are in good chip position and it isn't worth dropping half your stack if you're wrong. I might bet 2.5xBB instead of 4 if you want to steal as well. That way it's easier to fold and your stack remains healthy.
One note on the steal is that I almost want a hand like 78s, 89s, or 9Ts to make a play as big as yours here. Why? Well, with A9s if someone pushes after your raise then you are likely in bad shape. However, with a hand like the three I suggested it is unlikely that you will be dominated and even in the worst case you are only around a 3:2 dog.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:16 am GMT by Loonbat
Ditto to Viper's responses ...
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:34 am GMT by BeerWench13
I third what Viper said.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:21 pm GMT by Loonbat
BW - you have such good taste, dittoing my ditto ...
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:24 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Ditto to that too. 
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:34 pm GMT by Geno
Fold - can't be arsed to mess about w/Q9s, a few too many misses playing hands like these and you are needlessly draining a large stack in small chunks.
Call - suited connectors vs a min raise are gonna pay off big if you hit. Easy fold if you don't and he raises - you don't have much invested.
Fold - steal was an ok idea but you've now been caught with your hand in the cookie jar quite possibly so it's best to let it go. He may well have a lower Ace but live to fight another day I say.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:24 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| ViperX883 wrote: |
3. I fold this one. I think the steal attempt is fine, but you are in good chip position and it isn't worth dropping half your stack if you're wrong. I might bet 2.5xBB instead of 4 if you want to steal as well. That way it's easier to fold and your stack remains healthy. |
Raising a little less on the steals is a good tip which I will certainly keep in mind. Esp. with the blinds being so big as they were here.
| Geno wrote: | | Fold - can't be arsed to mess about w/Q9s, a few too many misses playing hands like these and you are needlessly draining a large stack in small chunks. |
That is a good point. I would probably have folded this hand if it wasn't for the fact I thought his stack could be mine if I hit, plus I had the current chiplead and figured I could gamble with a few of the chips without taking a big risk.
| Geno wrote: | | Fold - steal was an ok idea but you've now been caught with your hand in the cookie jar quite possibly so it's best to let it go. He may well have a lower Ace but live to fight another day I say. |
I agree with all the posters who advocate a fold here, and in retrospect this call probably cost me the win of the tourney.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:04 pm GMT by Moon_Child
FIRST- fold, because Q9s isn't a hand you want to play with in the first place. and the fact that you have to act first after the flop is not how u want to play the hand anyways. throw it out.
SENCOND - call, he bet the minium and you have a hand thats pretty decent to play with. if you hit big or get a bunch of outs on the flop for a drawing hand, you can consider to chase it and also knock a player out. and you are playing freezeout, so i think knocking a player out is something you want to do.
THIRD - nice try with the steal, but he came over the top on you. hes either trying to protect his BB, but i don't think thats how u would protect yourself so i think he has a big hand. you can take a gamble there since you have so much in the pot. but i say wait for a better hand. nice try.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:50 pm GMT by Ciso_B
1-prolly should fold ,Q9 isnt v good tho with chips id prolly call too .
2- Call.
3- Fold, dont like the size of the riase, couldda made it a bit less and still had same effect.
Posted Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:35 pm GMT by kompis
1) F
2) Y
3) S
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