Brits caught cheating in UK casino! |
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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:54 pm GMT by Geno
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4246560.stm
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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:05 pm GMT by mindgame
Okay, you'll hate me for saying this, but I can't resist the obvious:
This is just two players in collusion working with a simple computer in order to create an edge. They are limited by time, place, exposure to scrutiny, availability of games...on and on--so they cannot even come close to maximizing their potential profitability.
Yet they net in a few months time about 1/2 million dollars.
Now people...think about it...can anyone in their right mind believe this isn't happening online CONSTANTLY. Where the pace (and money movement) is 3 times faster? Scrutiny almost non-existent? Chances of getting caught nil? Chances of being punished ZERO??????
Next time I head to the casino I shall kiss the ground on which resides my brick and mortar game
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:15 pm GMT by Dave B
Thank God for the internet. No poker sight would allow the same players to continue to play eachother in this manner. Players are WAY too friendly at regular brick and mortar games to be trusted. Not to mention the fact that they couldnt freely access any illegal online profits.
Internet: poker w/ a condom.
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:37 pm GMT by mindgame
My god Dave, are you and I destined to disagree on EVERYTHING? I mean you have to be right some of the time.
I know people who play online, same games, high limit, side by side looking at each other's screens night after night. If you think these sites are protecting you from them, how are they getting away with it?
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:40 pm GMT by mindgame
oh...
and may I add...
That just because you're wearing a condom doesn't mean you aren't getting screwed. It just doesn't feel as good.
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:18 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
| mindgame wrote: |
Next time I head to the casino I shall kiss the ground on which resides my brick and mortar game |
Fact is mg, these people were caught operating in a B&M casino, not online, if it would be so much easier to avoid detection operating this scam.......... why were they not doing it?
Are they the only group operating in B&M casinos? i doubt it.
Have they caught anyone doing the same thing online? not that i know.
So next time you head for your B&M game and are bending to kiss the ground, just take a sec and check out the 2 guys bending next to you 8)
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:25 pm GMT by mindgame
Has anyone been caught online, you ask?
The online sites themselves indicate that they ban people and freeze money--they must have a reason, so the answer is yes, of course people are caught cheating online. The sites aren't about to put it in the paper though, are they? And you must concede that it's easier to catch people cheating when you can actually watch them.
So is online safer? How could it possibly be? But this debate could rage on forever. People have a deep and abiding need to believe they are not being cheated. I have been ejected from home games for exposing cheaters! People just don't want to know and they go into denial when enlightened. I have not SEEN the guys I mentioned above actually cheating....a friend did. He mentioned it, I asked them, and they laughed about it. They were incredulous that I'd have a problem with it. Their rational (typical of most cons and cheats) is that everyone does it...you'd be insane NOT to. I told them a cheat's a cheat and refused to play with them anymore--I won't go back to the game they play in, I think anyone who knowingly plays with a cheat is nuts. Kill the mf, yes; play with them? no.
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:54 pm GMT by Geno
Jeez, it was just something for people to read
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:01 pm GMT by suitedaces84
I'm just thankful I live in the good ole U.S.A. far away from those evil, money hungry Brits.
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:11 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
mindgame, have you ever read any of RussG's posts on RPG?
I find it unlikely that i am any safer in a B&M then an online.
And yes i realise this is somewhat of a climbdown from my last naive "online poker is pure" post 
Posted Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:52 pm GMT by mindgame
Don't know Russ. In fact I humbly confess to ignorance about what RPG is (and I have this horrible feeling that I'm going to look like an idiot for not knowing).
I've read Wallace, though--his early book and his current neo-cheating stuff. It's out there, live and online, and it sucks. It's one of the things about poker I hate--the feeling that you can never really relax about that issue. I think I ran the balloon up on this one because so many people are in denial on the issue. I really do feel safer in the casino though.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:41 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
sorry, RGP not rpg  stands for rec.gambling.poker is a newsgroup forum, the oldest poker forum online really. It's a bit of a zoo these days.
RussG is a long term poster on both B&M and online poker, some people regard him as a conspiracy theorist crazy person.
personally i feel that there is a lot of value in being aware of the things he says.
I don't know if it's wise to direct you to his site, it may turn you off ever playing poker live or online, ever again.
anyways, judge for yourself http://www.pokermafia.com
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:49 am GMT by JohnnyCache
That guy I would say is paranoid, but just because you're wrong about some of the people doesn't mean you're wrong about ALL the people.
Mindgame: What's harder to do, form a hunch about two guys colluding based on one of them always folding or scratching his schnozz when he's got an ace, or LOOKING AT ALL THE HANDS THEY'VE EVER PLAYED TOGETHER to see if they're collusive? I know if I was working FOR the casino, I'd prefer to have the resources of the online site.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:50 am GMT by Muck
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | | sorry, RGP not rpg stands for rec.gambling.poker is a newsgroup forum |
I used to post there until the signal to noise ratio finally got to me.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:50 am GMT by mindgame
Johnny,
The real problem is that most casinos don't actually give a flying fart about collusion. They could prevent it if they wanted, but it doesn't cost them any money until it starts to drive players away. I've been one of 3 different guys to get up from a table and demand that the floor at least make two buddies play at different tables and seen the request dismissed. My tactic now is to just badger the SOB's incessantly, make them defensive and uncomfortable, and make a scene if I have to. It gets the rest of the table keen to what they are up to and they figure their edge is probably gone so I usually manage to drive them from my table. Mind, I've only seen it 3 times in the last 18 months, so it's a minor problem. I think you can assume it's a constant presence on the internet.
How many times have you seen two guys in a sit'n go all-in, head to head, on level 1 when 1 guy has virtually nothing--with an occasional 3rd idiot in the fray--so here we are down to 8 or 9 and one guy has a HUGE lead? It's equivilant to allowing a single player to have a rebuy. Doesn't that make you just a TAD suspicious?
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:57 am GMT by Muck
This is just my opinion but I wouldn’t call one early double up in exchange for a 2 x Buy-in a huge advantage.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:03 am GMT by Dave B
SNG collusion is very difficult at the larger sites because the tables fill so fast.
In addition, even if you triple up early and knock out a friend, you still need to place 2nd or better to win, that isnt a sure thing, even for solid players. 20% of the time (or so), the 3rd weak hand will win and clean you both out. Now you need to win the next one to stay even.
If you are worried at all about collusion, SNGs are the safest bet around.
After checking out my username at pokerprophecy.com, I see I am in the money 40-45% of SNGs. That is how you win at these, it isnt through collusion.
BTW-the dope going all in w/ junk is likely trying to steal the small/med raises. Happens all the time.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:29 am GMT by BeerWench13
I'm not going to get involved in this discussion really, but I do want to put in my two cents.
The world is full of cheats and scoundrels. We all know this. No matter where you go or what you do there will be cheaters who are just in it for the money and don't care about the game.
As for online versus B&M, I think that if you're going to cheat, you're going to find a way no matter what the venue. Cheaters are cheaters and they suck. I have no respect for colluders in poker, but that's not going to stop them from colluding. The best one can hope to do is spot the collusion before they get to your bankroll.
I don't play online much any more unless it's 7-stud. Not because I believe I'm being cheated, but because it's not as much fun as live play and it takes away my biggest strength which is reading my opponent.
I am glad that there are many on this forum who are successful in online play. I hope that continues for them and that they're not struck by the cheaters that are out there. They do exist in all areas no matter what the game or stakes, but I don't think that everyone is a cheater. I'm not and I know numerous people who play online all of the time who also are not cheaters, but I'm not naive enough to believe that it's not happening.
I also saw collusion at two different tables in one weekend the last time I played in AC. It's everywhere, but I found a way to use it to my advantage or I left the table.
If you're able to spot the cheat at the table it makes things easier for you, but I can't be suspicious of every person who goes all-in and loses on the first hand of a SNG. It happens far too often.
Play and enjoy the game but be aware of your surroundings. If you don't feel comfortable playing online, then don't. If you don't feel comfortable playing in a casino, then don't. If you know of a guy who cheats in a local home game then don't go to that game or make the host aware of the situation. If they are the host, then find another game.
As long as there are games with stakes there will be cheaters and colluders. It's a fact of life. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it is.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:39 am GMT by mindgame
I think it boils down to one thing....
No matter where you are don't let yourself feel too comfortable. It's a jungle out there. I just feel a lot safer being able to see the animal I'm dealing with.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:47 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I just feel a lot safer being able to see the animal I'm dealing with. |
I agree 100%, George. I don't like blindness.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:08 pm GMT by Geno
I only play online because on this godforsaken little island there are still no casinos that offer texas holdem. Someone in the US adopt me 
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:15 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Someone in the US adopt me |
Hmmmm...Do you do laundry?
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:23 pm GMT by Geno
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | | Someone in the US adopt me |
Hmmmm...Do you do laundry? |
For room and board, I do anything.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:49 pm GMT by Dave B
You can move in at anytime, we have plenty of room. 6-7 casinos w/ a variety of holdem within 2 hours and one of the biggest in America within 20 minutes.
It aint Vegas, but at least we have water.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:17 pm GMT by golddog
Are you kidding, Geno? Omaha only or what?
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:16 pm GMT by mindgame
So much for "Rule Britannia."
Whatever you do don't go NEAR Minnesotta. Dave B's a great guy but it's a ZOO up there. Worse than that there's neither 10/20 nor 20/40--the only two limit hold'em games worth the bother.
The Beerwench's offer, of course, is intriguing, and she's a fetching lass sure enough, but what the wench fails completely to tell you is that you are, on your godforsaken little isle, closer to a casino than SHE is.
The lies a woman won't tell to get out of housework. Okay crime of omission if "lie" is a poor choice.
Posted Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:46 pm GMT by Dave B
yeah, not 10/20 or 20/40, but 8/16 15/30 and 30/60 play just fine.
and our 8/16 pots are MUCH bigger than your 10/20 tight play down there.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:15 am GMT by Cyberhwk
| mindgame wrote: | Johnny,
The real problem is that most casinos don't actually give a flying fart about collusion. They could prevent it if they wanted, but it doesn't cost them any money until it starts to drive players away. |
This is a good point. A casino I regularly go to just had a dealer arrested because he was pocketing jackpot money instead of dropping it for the bad beat.
He's been working there for years, probably stole thousands of dollars and many knew SOMETHING wasn't right. So why did it still happen for so long before he was investigated?
...he wasn't stealing house money.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:56 am GMT by Muck
Hey the UK isn’t that bad for card rooms, I’ve played in casino’s in:
- Reading
- Bristol
- Swansea
- Cardiff
- Birmingham (now closed)
This is before the game even really took off like it has now. It’s also before I got into playing on-line...why else would I drive over a hundred miles to play in a tourney 
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:24 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | The Beerwench's offer, of course, is intriguing, and she's a fetching lass sure enough, but what the wench fails completely to tell you is that you are, on your godforsaken little isle, closer to a casino than SHE is.
The lies a woman won't tell to get out of housework. Okay crime of omission if "lie" is a poor choice. |
You know, he didn't say will someone in the US that's really close to a casino adopt me. He just said someone in the US. And, yes, there is little I would do to get out of doing laundry. It's the job that is never complete.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:29 am GMT by Dave B
Well, you must be quite the dirty girl.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:33 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Well, you must be quite the dirty girl. |
You have no idea. 
Unless you do laundry naked, you're dirtying up clothing while doing laundry. Thus, you never can step back and say "It's all done!" because there will always be more.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:57 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
| BeerWench13 wrote: |
Unless you do laundry naked, you're dirtying up clothing while doing laundry. Thus, you never can step back and say "It's all done!" because there will always be more. |
You know, i'm sure there is a really simple answer to this?
can't
quite
put finger
on it.
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