turn play then a thin river bet. |
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Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:59 am GMT by howzit
1-2NL live
Me: $360
Villain 1 (CO): $85
Villain 2 (UTGish): covers
limped to me in SB, i complete w/J4  6-7 players, not sure.
Flop: ($15) A J  8
checked to weak-tight villain 1 who bets $15. This usually means ace, i look at her stack and check-raise her all-in to $85. Villain 2 cold-calls fast but I feel like the way he throws his chips in tells me he's not that strong. villain 1 folds fast.
Turn: ($205) 3 
I am OOP, do i check here? or bet here? more importantly, what's his hand range? what hands do you think he'll fold here?
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Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:13 pm GMT by 1988 TR
You didn't mention if the original Villain called or not.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:37 pm GMT by howzit
edited....
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:43 pm GMT by Phil14312
If your read is accurate...I like a pot-sized bet here. If you think he might be on another flush draw, perhaps something like Kxs then a pot-sized bet might get rid of him. He could have something like K10s or 9T.
My guess (based mostly on your read) is that he is drawing and you probably have him beat with you pair of jacks. I bet 2/3 - the full pot and hope he goes away. If not you have a ton of outs to 2-pair or better.
There is the small possibility he is slow-playing something like A8 or a set of 8s (incorrectly). If you are raised re-evaluate and make a call based on the pot odds of hitting a flush I guess.
If you miss on the river I try to check it down.
I don't have too much NL cash game experience so its just my inexperienced ramblings.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:16 pm GMT by howzit
his cold-call means what?
first off was a big ace, then a flush/straight draw, then maybe aces up, and lastly a set. My friend mentioned that he could be holding KK/QQ here when he missed a preflop limp reraise. I think that's possible also.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:37 pm GMT by UrAteUp
cold call means calling without a raise. This can be an indication that they were on a draw hand.
Difficult to say what V2 is playing. They could be on a PP, flush draw, trips/set, perhaps they only hold an Ax. Any hand you want to put them on still makes you have to decide what your next action is. Personally I would check. If he bets you can call him or go over the top and see the turn. If the turn helps your hand then naturally you'll want to bet it. If not then you have to ask yourself if your J's can hold up or not.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:38 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I'm a little confused reading this - Sorry.
Were 6-7 players in to see the flop?
Anyway, I think the hard part is with the read you are giving off.... I don't know how much reliability I can put on it "The way he put the chips in." So I'm going to treat it as I don't have that read.
So, the range of hands would be :
1) Weak Ace (Not sure how he could cold call $85 with anything less than A10, but who knows, I guess I've seen worse) - Especially with a player behind him.
2) Big draw, similar to yours - Something like KQ . This would give him 18 outs against you. If he believes you have the ace, it would only give him 12 outs in his mind (really 10 considering you have 2 spades). A big enough bet would give him improper odds to draw at the flush and gutshot.
Another big draw hand would be 109 . This would give him some more straight outs, but no overcards to your jacks. And unknown to him, his flush draw is no good.
3) A nice hand - 2 pair or better. Dangerous slow play with 2 spades on the flop, but a lot of people like to see no spade on the turn before getting all their chips in.
4) KK QQ. I don't think he has this unless he is not a good player at all. His slow play backfired when the Ace flopped. Given that flop how can he call $85 with an underpair and 2 outs. Although it's a possibilty (Any pair is a possibility), I gotta give my opponent more credit than that.
5) A weak draw. 109os.
1-3 all seem pretty likely (with #5 a longshot), with both 1 & 3 having you beat and 2 having some outs.....
With this murky of a situation and the guy showing some strength calling an bet and a raise to $85 on the flop, I don't think I want to push him around here (Especially since people have a hard time folding that Ace).
I would be happy to check here & evaluate how much it would cost me to see the river. If you lead out with $100, I think you are comitting yourself to the pot as you would have odds to call your last $160 or so with 14 outs to improve if he were to put you all in.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:59 pm GMT by howzit
Any bet here is tieing me to this pot and there are hands that would fold to a turn bet that I would actually want for thim to stick around. 10-9 or a lower flush draw and all hands beating me are most likely sticking around. (aces up, set, and KQ of spades)
I could probably get a naked ace or a pocket pair to fold to a decent-sized turn bet but that's uncertain.
I checked, he checked behind. So that gets rid of the set and probably aces up.
the river is the beautiful J pot is still $205. How much? or induce a bluff?
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:44 pm GMT by Loonbat
I'm betting the hand for $80-100 and looking for a call.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:21 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I can't see how he could have a jack in his hand and :
1) Call the flop bet
and at the same time
2) Not bet the turn
So I really think you are winning here.
Not a real big fan of hoping for the bluff....
I would throw 100 out there & hope he has an ace. I would call any re-raise.
If I really wanted a bluff from him, I would throw $25 out there & hope he sees it as weakness and goes over the top (this could even work if he has an Ace & sees that bet as so weak, he thinks the Ace is good & you missed your draw). That way if he has an ace, I still get an extra $25 on the call, and if he wants to bluff, it forces a bigger bluff out of him. I like that better than just checking.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:07 pm GMT by howzit
| 1988 TR wrote: | I can't see how he could have a jack in his hand and :
1) Call the flop bet
and at the same time
2) Not bet the turn
So I really think you are winning here.
Not a real big fan of hoping for the bluff....
I would throw 100 out there & hope he has an ace. I would call any re-raise.
If I really wanted a bluff from him, I would throw $25 out there & hope he sees it as weakness and goes over the top (this could even work if he has an Ace & sees that bet as so weak, he thinks the Ace is good & you missed your draw). That way if he has an ace, I still get an extra $25 on the call, and if he wants to bluff, it forces a bigger bluff out of him. I like that better than just checking. |
underbet huh? didn't think of that. . .
I lead for $125, he mucked. so me thinks i was ahead the whole time. Just a confusing hand OOP.
Posted Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:09 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| howzit wrote: |
underbet huh? didn't think of that. . .
I lead for $125, he mucked. so me thinks i was ahead the whole time. Just a confusing hand OOP. |
Yah, I think that definitely tells you he was on a draw (Master of the obvious).
I think once he checked the turn, it really helped to define his hand. I like the check you made on the turn though - I don't think you had enough information at that point to fire a bet into him. You want to see the river cheap there.
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