Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:25 pm GMT by mugged_off
Thoughts ?
And yes I know I'm not an advanced player, but this is the only section which says hand analysis and there is no fixed limit section.
Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00)
Seat 1: El_Majico ($54 in chips)
Seat 2: jimmyjedd ($67 in chips)
Seat 3: CJHunt ($16.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Max Legroom ($23.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Crazy Dave04 ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 6: reyogold ($77.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Feliix ($14.50 in chips)
Seat 8: nusseyj ($32.50 in chips)
Seat 9: W.M.CREECH ($13.50 in chips)
Seat 10: xxx($6.50 in chips)
W.M.CREECH: posts small blind $0.25
xxx: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to xxx  
El_Majico: folds
jimmyjedd: folds
CJHunt: folds
Max Legroom: calls $0.50
Crazy Dave04: folds
reyogold: calls $0.50
Feliix: folds
Feliix is sitting out
nusseyj: raises $0.50 to $1
W.M.CREECH: folds
xxx: raises $0.50 to $1.50
Max Legroom: calls $1
reyogold: folds
nusseyj: calls $0.50
*** FLOP ***   
xxx: checks
Max Legroom: checks
nusseyj: bets $0.50
xxx: raises $0.50 to $1
Max Legroom: folds
nusseyj: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** 
xxx: bets $1
nusseyj: raises $1 to $2
xxx: calls $1
*** RIVER *** 
xxx: bets $1
nusseyj: raises $1 to $2
xxx: calls $1 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
nusseyj: shows   (four of a kind, Sevens)
xxx: mucks hand
nusseyj collected $14.75 from pot
I don't think I played this that badly. Decided to check raise the river to force out flush/straight draws, I knew villain would bet. Didn't put him on QQ or JJ as I think he would have reraised preflop with them.
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Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:00 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| mugged_off wrote: | | Decided to check raise the river to force out flush/straight draws, I knew villain would bet. |
I'm guessing you meant the flop and not the river, but the check-raise is fine.
| mugged_off wrote: | | Didn't put him on QQ or JJ as I think he would have reraised preflop with them. |
Calling a 3-bet with QQ or JJ preflop isn't unusual, especially in a full ring game. ABC 3-bettor likely has AA, KK or AK. To two of those hands, QQ/JJ is a significant underdog, and a coinflip to the other. In the instances where the QQ/JJ makes his set, he can lead the flop against the overpair, get raised and make a meek call representing TPTK. Then, assuming the turn isn't scary, the set can pop it then when the bets are bigger.
Your lead on the river is awful. You need to check-call there.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:11 pm GMT by supafrey
Agree that the river play should have been check-call, instead, also.
But I would have three-bet the turn. Nothing disqustingly dangerous has come out, and I don't want stupid AKs draws to stay around with good odds. Three bet the turn, call a cap. Check-call the river, in my opinion.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:21 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| supafrey wrote: | | Nothing disqustingly dangerous has come out, |
All the more reason to fear the turn raise heads-up.
| supafrey wrote: | | and I don't want stupid AKs draws to stay around with good odds. |
You can't do much to protect the hand at this point. A 3-bet on the turn would strictly be a value play, and if you think you're ahead, that's fine.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:06 pm GMT by supafrey
This was addressed in a really good topic on another forum about "small" mistakes and "big" mistakes. If he three bet every single time he was in this situation, and cold-called the river, I believe he'd be making a few small mistakes every now and again, but stopping a really big mistake of not capitalizing when he has the best hand.
That's my opinion, personally.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:29 pm GMT by mugged_off
Thanks guys
Yes I meant I check raised the flop sean.
LOL that river bet was bad wasn't it. Knew it was wrong afterwards.
So, given that someone could possibly of flopped a set of queens or jacks, was I right to have played the flop agressively ?? I'm thinking that with all the possible draws I have to play the flop agressively and then just check call to showdown if I get raised/ check raised on the turn ??
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:44 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| supafrey wrote: | | I believe he'd be making a few small mistakes every now and again, but stopping a really big mistake of not capitalizing when he has the best hand. |
I just don't think he's ahead enough of the time here to make the turn reraise profitable. Remember, the 3-bet preflop and the flop check-raise has given villain at least some indication of strength, so I'd be inclined to put him on 2-pair or better.
But, we can agree to disagree.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:36 pm GMT by supafrey
Can't always be afraid of the set when you have aces. =P
And ofcourse, we can disagree on this one, sean. Definitely no "perfect" way to play it. At .50/1 i like my line, but others may choose differently.
Okay. That's weird. A semi-civilized strategy discussion on here.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:46 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| supafrey wrote: | | If he three bet every single time he was in this situation, and cold-called the river, I believe he'd be making a few small mistakes every now and again, but stopping a really big mistake of not capitalizing when he has the best hand. |
I don't get how failing to win one bet is a bigger mistake than losing two.
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:51 pm GMT by supafrey
It's not really just about the situation itself. The author (a high stakes fl player) was talking about how there are significant problems for players, and little ones. Something like whether or not to call a raise with AJ vs A10 is a fairly small problem. As are things like... if i'm willing to call from this situation with 8-10s, am I with 7-9s.
Other things, like never capitalizing with overpairs and monster hands, are significant "big problems" that can snowball into a perpetual loss for players. If everytime you have one of these you lose a potential half a bet or a full bet, even, they will add up a good deal faster.
Edit: I think the fact he mentions being scared of the flopped set proves that the problem may, in fact, exist?
Posted Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:49 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| supafrey wrote: | It's not really just about the situation itself. The author (a high stakes fl player) was talking about how there are significant problems for players, and little ones. Something like whether or not to call a raise with AJ vs A10 is a fairly small problem. As are things like... if i'm willing to call from this situation with 8-10s, am I with 7-9s.
Other things, like never capitalizing with overpairs and monster hands, are significant "big problems" that can snowball into a perpetual loss for players. If everytime you have one of these you lose a potential half a bet or a full bet, even, they will add up a good deal faster. |
All that is great. But it doesn't really explain this
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | I don't get how failing to win one bet is a bigger mistake than losing two. |
The fact is a three bet when you're behind will cost you twice as much as failing to raise when you're ahead. Again, which is the bigger mistake?
You do not have a small equity edge to push here. Let's look at the hand. You've pretty much told your oppoent you have a high pocket pair and he doesn't care. Why do you think that is? Unless you have a history with this guy or he is a maniac there's no way you're ahead more than 50% of the time here.
Posted Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:37 am GMT by mugged_off
So would you all have played this the same way up until the river ?
any of you fold to the raise on the turn ??
Posted Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:54 am GMT by Phil14312
A  Q is a possibility.
So is KK. I call the turn-raise and check-call the river.
Posted Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:56 am GMT by supafrey
I already said I'd have played it differently. 3 bet the turn raise, call a cap, check-call the river.
Posted Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:50 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| supafrey wrote: | | I already said I'd have played it differently. 3 bet the turn raise, call a cap, check-call the river. |
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but why?
Posted Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:42 am GMT by Aves
I think the best way to play the hand is to win it by betting the flop.
I think checkraising the flop is horrible. You say you checkraised to get draws out? You can only hope to get middle position player out with this play; and if the button is actually the one on the draw he will likely check through. This is especially likely since you 3 bet prefop.
Also, I agree with supafrey that you cannot be afraid of sets here as that only happens a small percentage of the time, and he will let you know when he has it. But i disagree about 3-betting the turn. As Sean pointed out, you have shown a lot of strength, and you only have 1 pair. A turn raise usually means they can beat that, even if it is Aces.
Posted Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:34 am GMT by Ciso_B
Pre flop play -obvious
Flop- Fine.(really bad call by him here lol)
Turn-Alot of you say check/call from here onwards after the re raise,I personally would prefer either a re raise or a fold....if you re raise and he comes over the top you can pass, or alternatively he passes AQ/QK/KK here and forcing an error on his part(should he call).Course i understand if u just call re raise and check/call the river u r trying to save ureself a bet or 2 but i think you got to make a judgement call based on the opponent and the board, would this guy really re raise with AQ/QK /Aj or wahtever on turn when u check raised the flop....chances are you're beat.
River- not very good play at all.
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