Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:21 am GMT by howzit
5-5NL
villain(SB): $1000
villain2(UTG+1): ~$800
Me: button, i cover.
limped pot, 5 to the flop. I limp w/ red 44, sometimes i'll raise here but this table was generally calling down a lot of preflop raises. SB thinks I'm a maniac and villain2 thinks i'm loose because i called his all-in earlier w/two overs and a flushdraw.
Flop: ($25) Q  9 4  . SB is uber-tight and leads for $20. Villain2 is just an awful calling station. he calls, I smooth-call.
Turn: ($85) 8 
villain leads for $50, this means he loves his hand. bad player calls, i pop it to $300. SB calls very fast, villain2 folds.
River: $($735) 4
villain checks, how much?
I also thought about folding if SB pushed all-in on the turn. . .
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Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:41 am GMT by tame_deuces
I'd go for 350ish, leave him with enough to raise with if he is in the mood.
And if he is so tight enough to fold JT here, so be it, then you got valuable info and can roll over him for the rest of the night.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:22 am GMT by UrAteUp
I might try an under bet here of about 200. I want to try to get him to raise me then I came back over the top and re-raise.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:34 am GMT by Nut Flush
No way villain has JT here. With a flush draw out there he would have to re-raise your $300 on the turn and put you to the test.
I'm guessing he has either AQ, QQ, or 99 and that river card saved your ass. Why would he show strengtht the whole way and check the river? He wants you to bet, I'd go for the huge overbet and hope he calls :D
Of course I don't play those kind of limits so what do I know. Thanks for sharing the hand though, it's a good one for discussion. Do you simply make a value bet or go for the gusto?
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:13 am GMT by zeroswarm
I'm guessing he's on QQ.
I don't play these stakes either but would an all in work here? He might think your trying to steal it or something?
I'm probably wrong.......... 
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:13 am GMT by tame_deuces
I assumed QQ or AQ would be raised pre-flop.
And if villain just filled his boat with 99 or 88, I guessed he is likely handing his stack over nomatter what happens, so the bet doesn't matter that much.
And I wouldn't want him to get away too cheaply from a JT.
But I don't play these limits either, I just like Howzit's threads and figured I'd stick my neck out and give it a go for once. .)
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:57 am GMT by TheSalche
| howzit wrote: | | SB thinks I'm a maniac |
i think this is important here ...
because of this, i think jack 10 is a definite possibility ... if he loves his hand when the 8 comes, i think that only strengthens that possibility ... seems to me by howzit's writing here he thinks that he's got jack 10 or QQ ... im thinking its jack 10
my guess is villain calls almost any bet here, probably even a push, but he may not raise if you underbet, so i think $500 - push is good here
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:27 pm GMT by Ciso_B
A bet of around $450 would be nice here , he could be playing Q 10 or J 10 imo, either would merit a call if he thinks ure a maniac, you could try and overbet it too , make it look like a bluff push all in but not sure if itd be called for definite.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:51 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| howzit wrote: | | SB thinks I'm a maniac |
Think for a while. Look over at him. Take off your sunglasses and stare him down then go all-in. Ask him if he likes apples.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:11 pm GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | I assumed QQ or AQ would be raised pre-flop. |
If the SB thinks he's a maniac, then it's quite possibe he slowplayed his hand preflop trying to trap and ended up getting bit in the ass.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:19 pm GMT by Jauron
I just put him in, unless he was drawing he's got to call me now. I'm betting 1/3 of the pot at this point what hand could fold except a drawing hand?
No need to get tricky on this one IMHO, if they don't call it doesn't really matter he probably wouldn't have called anything anyways.
I will say the ONLY thing I'd do tricky is to bet exactly what he had left, no more no less. He's got to call me and betting what someone has left is often a strong arm move it could push him into calling with a hand he wants to let go.
But again, who can smooth call 2/3'rs of his stack and fold on the river here to another 4?
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:49 pm GMT by howzit
I bet $450 and got promptly paid off.
I asked him if he was ahead on the turn and he said he didn't believe me that i had a set so I was ahead the whole way. If he had a set, he'd push the turn w/those draws out there.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:55 pm GMT by Ciso_B
hmmm,so he had qj,qt like i thought? and u bet 450 too like i said.....nice play howzit. :D
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:55 pm GMT by fiezk
imho, a bet of around half the pot would be nice here.
If your opponent has QQ or 99, he'll probably push anyway. If he/she has a str8, or even a hand like AQ, the bet seems about the maximum he'll call given your description.
Posted Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:34 pm GMT by traz
I seem to doubt he has QQ or 99...the 4 would have made his boat, and he'd probably feel VERY comfortable with that.
If I had to throw out a guess...because of the check on the river, I'm guessing Q9. I just don't think he'd check the river with a straight or a big hand (in his mind)..a tight player would want to make money on his hand, and thus not give you the chance to check as well.
Bet 200, which would leave him with 500 left over if he calls...this is a large enough remaining sum that he'd probably call, and even better, its large enough to try and push all in.
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