Posted Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:35 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Ok, it's a live tournament... blinds are currently 40/80 at a 7-handed table (3 tables playing). I have ~2500 in my stack. Primary villain has ~1900 in his stack. I'm in the big blind with
J  2 . 3 people call me, including small blind. Total pot: 320
Flop K Q J 
I check. Villain bets 100. 1 other player calls. I call 100. Total pot: 620
Turn 2 
I check. Villain bets 100. Player 2 raises to 250. I call. Villain now re-raises all-in for 1620. Player 2 folds. Total pot is now 2590, with 1470 more for you to call. What do you do? I'm also interested in analysis of my initial call on the turn (bolded).
Villain is known to be a loose passive player, but capable of check-slowplaying big hands (usually he either bets big or just checks with big hands).
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Posted Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:22 am GMT by tame_deuces
I would guess unless villain is man enough for an all-in with top pair on scary board you are likely dogged pretty bad in the hand. Your read on villain seems to mean he likely has you beat too. You can also safely fold and still have a working stack in the tourney, so I would fold. Even with outs for the flush and boat, and possibility of being ahead I just don't like calling here. I'm not too fond of the turn call between two raises either, but two pair can be hard to let go 7-handed.
*edit*
Well, truth be told I'm not the best to let hands like these go, so what the heck, I would probably call. I'd till have 600 chips, and as they say, shortstack play is the key to success. 
But I would seriously have considered pushing on the flop though
Posted Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:03 am GMT by General Sal
Hmm... nice problem you got here. Well, let's see, the villain is a "loose passive player" who limped somewhere, anywhere... I don't think you stated. Either way, he gave a chance for a guy behind him to limp in also behind him. I don't think he limped in with ace king. Nor queen ace. He could have two pair though... queen jack or queen king.
I would think other wise now though... there's two to the flush and a very coordinated board right there. He should have bet bigger than normal here, even if he had the straight A 10. Just as easily that someone could could catch the flush, he could catch a boat. So, his hand wasn't that good to start with. I think he had a hand and a draw... thinking what I'm thinking? How 'bout K  10 ... well at least just King 10.
You said he was loose and passive, right? Hey, he might even have Jack Ace .
I wasn't crazy about your action on the flop though. I'm not sure about the flop move though. I guess a call is okay... it's kind of dangerous. You probably saved some money definitely for a cold call... I would have said check raise here... maybe representing the straight. But, he was going all-in anyway.
A 2 came on the turn. He makes the same small bet into a pot of now $600. A raise for $250 follows. He moves in after you call. I think now he was more likely to have been setting you guys up, with at least top two pair. Or even bottom two pair. Those are the most likely hands he limped in with. So, what do you do?
Well, if you think two pair Jacks and deuces will be enough, then you'd have a total of 14 outs now? 9 for the flush, 2 jacks, and 3 more ducks. With one card to come that's nearly 2.3:1 against. You're getting less than 2:1. Fold.
If you had 9 outs, then that's 5:1 against. (Flush draw)... still not enough outs. Fold.
So, what actually happened here?
Posted Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:24 pm GMT by Ciso_B
gotta lay it down me thinks, best u can hope for is something like 10 k , and even that wud be a little rash with you and the other guy in there.
outs for the river if he has straight or QK tho. What did you do then?
Posted Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:20 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Ok, thanks for the help guys. I'll tell you what happened, but please feel free to give more feedback.
A little bit of background. I'd played with this guy before, and he went all-in in a previous game with middle pair once because he "got bored." My read on him told me he didn't have T9 or AT, so now I just had to determine what he might have. KQ, KJ, QJ (or K2 or Q2) are essentially the same as a straight, although KQ is a little better since my full house would still be live as well. I also did not suspect him of having a flush draw, as he almost ALWAYS check/called draws. Based on what I knew, and given that he might have "gotten bored," I figured there was about a 60% chance I was behind in the hand. But between the 40% that I might have him beat and the almost 30% chance of improving my hand on the river, I rationalized a call. In retrospect, I would like to lay this hand down and wait for a better spot, but if I win that pot, I have a good chance of gaining most of the chips on the table and probably locking myself in to make the final table. It was a risk, and I took it--overall I think it was pretty marginal either way.
As it turned out, he had K Q and I didn't improve on the river. My chip stack was crippled, and I ended up going all-in with A9s and losing to QJ.
Posted Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:16 pm GMT by traz
The push to me strongly indicates top pair and a high kicker, or more likely, two pair.
I'd fold...blind weren't too high, and there was alot of time to make more money
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