Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:12 pm GMT by Carcass
This hand doesn't have complex strategy just want to know if anyone would.
100NL. Tight table with lots of preflop>flop aggression.
I am MP2($135)QQ first in w/raise to $4. MP3 calls.
Folds around to SB. He pushes all in for $157. He had not pushed preflop with any hand previously.
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Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:36 pm GMT by weirpougs
my theory is that you want some one to raise you when you have QQ, KK, AA or AKs.
you got what you wanted therefore it is an automatic call.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:37 pm GMT by Ciso_B
| Quote: | Tight table with lots of preflop>flop aggression.
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Based on this , i would say id prolly fold...Tight table with QQ all in isnt that great if you are not way behind you are prolly racing - that being said I'd still call around 60% of time, cos why would he move in for so much in little pot with AA or KK . Could easily be overplaying JJ..
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:31 pm GMT by Carcass
I'm really only in good shape against AK or JJ? I just didn't have enough knowledge on this player to make the call. He's got me covered so i could be on a coin flip for my entire stack. The key here is that the table was TAG. He figured we likely wouldn't call without the nuts, and if we did, he would be in ok shape. I tend to agree with you Ciso_B that he would not likely move in to the pot like that with AA or KK but it's one of those situations where you get 20 seconds to act and i couldn't pull the trigger.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:43 pm GMT by Nut Flush
Only having invested $4 I'd have to lay the queens down in this spot. Sure, he could easily have JJ and realy doesn't want a caller but I've also seen people, and I've done it a few times myself, make a huge overbet like that with KK and AA just to have people call with much worse hands because it looks like a blatant steal.
At those limits you'll frequently get calls from AK-AT, and most pocket pairs.
So he's either way ahead or way behind you. Without any reads/tells on this player is it worth your entire stack to find out? Give him the $4 and get it back later.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:11 pm GMT by Carcass
He claims to have had suited AK and i think that is believable. I think without having played more hands with this player and seeing some showdowns(of which there weren't many at the table in the 1.5 hours i was there) i am folding this hand a majority of the time and giving up my $4.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:41 pm GMT by Ciso_B
| Quote: | | my theory is that you want some one to raise you when you have QQ, KK, AA or AKs. |
I dont agree with this, okay you have QQ. someone raises pre flop, someone re raiss all in and someone calls....You want this when you are hgolding QQ ,AK or even KK?
Its not an automatic call imo, but maybe thats just me.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:37 pm GMT by weirpougs
| Quote: | I dont agree with this, okay you have QQ. someone raises pre flop, someone re raiss all in and someone calls....You want this when you are holding QQ ,AK or even KK?
Its not an automatic call imo, but maybe thats just me. |
perhaps i over value QQ. but unless I have the "vibe" of aces/AK/KK I’m calling in a cash game with QQ to ANY raise. The situation above is more of a tournament style in my opinion, where by you want to avoid big confrontations (usually) and where I would be reluctant to call 2 raises cold and one call.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:38 pm GMT by fiezk
| Ciso_B wrote: | | Quote: | | my theory is that you want some one to raise you when you have QQ, KK, AA or AKs. |
I dont agree with this, okay you have QQ. someone raises pre flop, someone re raiss all in and someone calls....You want this when you are hgolding QQ ,AK or even KK?
Its not an automatic call imo, but maybe thats just me. |
I tend to agree. I made a similar move a couple of hours ago with KK, got a caller with QQ.
You have to look at the likely hands that you're up against, AK, AA, KK, JJ. You're only in really good shape if you're up against JJ.
Posted Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:54 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I was playing 10/20 NL this weekend and got QQ on the big blind - 3 or 4 handed. It folded to the small blind who raised me to $60. He had $1,750 in chips and I had $3,750.
I re-raised to $180. He re-raised to $600. Heads up in the BB with the small blind & I'm holding QQ..... I decide to go for it & put him all in.
He calls & shows AA.
I lose.
Life sucks. 
So yes, think twice before calling with QQ. Although I would think twice and probably do it again, lol.
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:01 am GMT by 1988 TR
Just looked up the hand history - It was 3 handed.... Yuck.
FullTiltPoker Game #246767684: Table Larson (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:09:05 ET - 2005/10/09
Seat 1: puffypoo ($4,903)
Seat 2: Eside Gangsta ($1,741)
Seat 4: 1988 TR ($3,763.15)
Eside Gangsta posts the small blind of $10
1988 TR posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 1988 TR  
CWB boards (Observer): puffypoo: wunderful
puffypoo folds
Eside Gangsta raises to $60
1988 TR raises to $180
CWB boards (Observer): ok, no one in here is copy and pasting, im not gunna lie
Eside Gangsta raises to $600
1988 TR raises to $3,763.15, and is all in
Eside Gangsta calls $1,141, and is all in
1988 TR shows
Eside Gangsta shows  
Uncalled bet of $2,022.15 returned to 1988 TR
*** FLOP ***   
1988 TR: nh
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
1988 TR shows two pair, Queens and Twos
Eside Gangsta shows two pair, Aces and Twos
Eside Gangsta wins the pot ($3,481) with two pair, Aces and Twos
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3,482 | Rake $1
Board:
Seat 1: puffypoo (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Eside Gangsta (small blind) showed and won ($3,481) with two pair, Aces and Twos
Seat 4: 1988 TR (big blind) showed and lost with two pair, Queens and Twos
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:53 am GMT by tame_deuces
Tight table with a player who had not previously pushed all-in.
Based on those two I do not race with QQ for my stack. Or maybe I do. But not willingly. It would be more like when your hand really guides your mouse without any real functionable brain control over the muscle movements at all. And you click call. Or the other variant, when you gaspingly look at the nightmare that unfolds and wonder how it could be, but then remember that your hand clicked call in just about a split nano-second.
I know I can't be alone in experiencing those.
Can I? 
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:33 am GMT by Jauron
I'd have to be completly sure he had KK or AA to not call.
Now if MP3 had reraised you and the SB went in, I'd consider it then. But most of the time it's getting called. I've folded Q's preflop to more than one all in, but a single player moving in on me in a cash game we're going to war nearly every time. He has to have AK to race with me, and there are only 2 hands that have me beat. Everything else I am a big favorite to. I may be wrong here, but knowing I'm wrong is just gonna make me fold Q's too often, I can't keep looking for monsters or I won't play anything.
If the guy had flipped over his AK after moving in would you have called him? I would have for that amount every time.
I tend to get more protective of my stack once I've tripled it. That may be a flaw in my game.
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:44 am GMT by howzit
1988, how fast was he playing? His raise makes it so that it's all-in or nothing.
As a general rule, you don't call a third bet (bet, you raise, he reraises) w/QQ because the best case scenario is AKo/JJ. (but the higher the stakes, the more willingness players will have to to bluff three-bet all-in w/nothing) But if he's spewing chips or just got bad beated a round ago and he's still thinking about it. Go ahead and make that call. But against "normal" non-tilting players, I might muck QQ when I am out of position for hte rest of hte hand.
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:51 am GMT by zeroswarm
Hate to lay down Queens but this time I think I would. If u call he'll probably flip up AA and take down your stack.
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:55 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Easy fold. With 130bbs you there's no way I mess around here. Unless he's a maniac I don't think there's any way he's messing around either. If this isn't the first time he's pulled something like this I'd could see calling, otherwise it's a fold everytime.
Posted Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:58 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| howzit wrote: | 1988, how fast was he playing? His raise makes it so that it's all-in or nothing.
As a general rule, you don't call a third bet (bet, you raise, he reraises) w/QQ because the best case scenario is AKo/JJ. (but the higher the stakes, the more willingness players will have to to bluff three-bet all-in w/nothing) But if he's spewing chips or just got bad beated a round ago and he's still thinking about it. Go ahead and make that call. But against "normal" non-tilting players, I might muck QQ when I am out of position for hte rest of hte hand. |
I didn't really have much of a read on him. I should have recognized the pattern though.... Raise, re-raise, re-raise (That is not an all in) usually spells trouble.
A half hour later, I had K6 and the flop came K 10 6 and we got all in. He had KQ. So it's hard to figure what anyone is thinking sometimes.
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