$109s: Turn bet - for max value... |
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Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:24 am GMT by red_pen
$109 buy-in. Crypto-site. BB=30.
10-handed.
Hero =1100 chips;
Villian = 850 chips. Read = Loose pre-flop saw more than his fair share.
Hero holds 2  3 in the BB.
Villian limps UTG. 8 folds. Hero raises 90. Villian calls.
Flop: Q 5 4
Hero bet 100. Villian calls.
Turn: Q 
Hero?
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Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:32 pm GMT by supafrey
bet.
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:48 pm GMT by Soup_dog
I think I would bet about 300 chips. Odds are, you way ahead.
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:07 pm GMT by traz
bet pot, around 400
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:35 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I hate low suited connectors for the reason if a flush draw hits ther board you always have to wonder if villian has a higher flush. Personally I feel you can't get away from this hand now. I would push with a 200-300 chip bet.
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:44 pm GMT by TheSalche
you aren't chasing him away ... he's either got something like A x or K x or he has Qx ... in all of these cases a river card can kill your hand, the difference is that if a heart comes, you can be pretty sure you're beat and lay it down, but if he fills up a full house, you won't have much indication of it
call my play passive, but it may be a better idea to bet 150 - 200, and check/fold a river ... if you do bet 300 - 400, you have already invested half your stack into this pot, and if the river is a heart, you're dead here most of the time
of course you do have two hearts to give you a str8 flush ... but he may have one of them ... i still dont want to commit a large amount of chips to this pot
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:22 pm GMT by weirdofreek
| Quote: | | ... if you do bet 300 - 400, you have already invested half your stack into this pot, |
it is still early if the BB is only 30 and 300-400 chips, which is what he would have left if he check folds after betting 300, is still enough to make a come back for a decent player at this level. He is likely way ahead here and doubling up early in a tourney can be huge. That said make sure you are not calling off your chips push the river make the villian have to make a decision.
Posted Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:58 pm GMT by Ninja
I'm thinkin bet 250, if he calls and river is a blank bet 350 or so, if river is a heart/pairs the board again check/fold.
Posted Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:46 am GMT by red_pen
Many thanks for the responses. Everyone seems to say bet here, but I am not so sure and I wasn't at the time. I have difficulty believing villian has the flush. He may have a flush draw, but for him to have a made flush his only reaonable holding given his UTG limp is A J which is loose-ish but fits the "read", K J is just too loose at this level. Limping A K is possible, but would he have just flat-called my pre-flop raise with no-one else in the pot? I doubted it. He much more likely to have a pocket pair. And he's going to have a very hard time calling a sizeable turn bet here with a measily pair of 8s.
I was left guessing what villian thought I had, given my original raise out of the blinds (to 3xbb total) and my pathetic 1/2 pot flop lead which he called, to help further define his hand. And this is where my brain over-heated.
So, if it pleases your lordships, can any of you take a stab at what you think villian has put me on ?
i) Given he holds a medium pocket pair, say 8s.
ii) Given he holds a TPTK no flush.
iii) Given he holds TPTK flush draw.
iv) Given he holds a made flush.
And whether any of these hands are credible given his flop call?
Posted Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:00 am GMT by Dave B
You raise was rather small as a % of stacks, 135 in the pot and 60 to call, that is better than 2:1. So preflop, he has odds to call w/ anything and see a flop heads up.
Your postflop bet isnt enough to make him fold any heart-so you really havent gained any info here.
He could have just about anything, and you havent done enough to push him off any heart or pair.
If I am in his position, I dont care what you have at this point, I want to see a river in position. If a 4th heart hits and you check, I can likely bet and steal the pot anyway.
I am not saying you played the hand well or poor, looks somewhat risky, but not bad yet. I just dont think you have done anything to start putting someone on a hand or to represent anything to him.
Posted Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:06 am GMT by tame_deuces
Villain looks like he is on a PP given the UTG limp and preflop call. I'd try to take it down now, no cards will make your decision any easier on the river and alot of cards will make it a harder one.
Posted Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:11 pm GMT by Loonbat
Villian has QJ 
Posted Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:22 am GMT by Nut Flush
Quite a few possibilities from an UTG limper.
Scenario 1: he limped with a monster looking for a trap. Most of the time he will be looking to re-raise preflop when someone in late position raises. Since the whole table folded and it got to heads up, he may have decided to jsut call your raise and hope to trap you further on the flop. Possible hands to do this would be AA, KK, QQ, AK.
Scenario 2: he limped with an ok hand, but didn't want to commit too much of his chips in case it got raised and re-raised behind him. Possible hands to limp with in this spot, any pair JJ-22, weak Aces such as AQ-AT, any suited Ace.
One of the problems I have in my game is putting a calling station on a hand. Is this guy slowplaying a monster or is he weak and chasing a draw? In your scenario, that turn card would scare the crap outta me. It is very possible he could have you drawing nearly dead already, your only chance is a straight flush if he limped with QQ, 44, 55, or Ax hearts(if he does ahve the Ace high flush, this leaves you with one out). On the other hand, even if he has a hand like AQ with the A , he's got like 15 outs to win. This is a preety bad spot to be in out of position.
Silly question, why raise from the BB with this hand instead of seeing a free flop? You would think 23 would be easy to get away from post flop, but not this time :D Also, any time I see an UTG just limp in, it seems fishy to me.
On the flop I think I would have bet a little more than 100 though. You've got him covered in chips so you can't go broke this hand but he can. I would have fired off 1/3rd of his stack on the flop. Still not sure what I would do on the turn thogh if he called.
Posted Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:24 pm GMT by red_pen
| Quote: | | Silly question, why raise from the BB with this hand instead of seeing a free flop? |
Not so silly a question, more of a silly play. I suppose I felt that it was prolly the last hand he'd think I had, it being the nut low an' all. Who raises with the nut low FFS? (Omaha8 player need not respond). It has its advantages in that it sets me up for a decent bluffing opportunity if my initial read of a medium pair was correct and the flops goes high. If the flop goes low I might pick up a well disguised draw with reasonable implied odds, but nothing I would be prepared to go broke with. I wouldn't do it again anytime soon tho'.
Eventually I checked the turn putting villian in the same spot i had found myself in. I thought that if he had a pocket pair or AQ (no club) he'd think I'd given up and try to take it down with a reasonable sized bet that kills my flush draw odds. If he's got a made flush he'd bet less probably, but I wouldn't buy it - it just doesn't "fit" with everything else. And if he had a made boat he'd check. He'd also checks the nut flush draw of course, but i think the number of times he bets his pair more than makes up for the number of times he hits a better flush (5 or 6 outs in 45 cards) - maybe I am wrong.
He bet 150. I pushed. He mucked.
I think I did OK and my read was good. I could well be very wrong, risking too much for what was only 150 more chips, and just got lucky. I'd be interested to read any other views of those unfortunate enough to have taken the time to read this nonsense. I especially enjoy abuse so go right ahead.
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