Posted Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:36 am GMT by Playboy
I saw this conversation on another forum and wanted to see if what they are saying is correct. Please read the following and comment on the original poster...I'm looking for official WSOP ruling here.
****I play at a local poker bar in Kansas and I often question their method of raising, calling with an all in.
I get this part, if the blinds are 100/200, the UTG has the option to raise it to any numeral as long as it is above 400. He can raise it to 425 if he wanted to, because he has to double the blind.
Ok here is the part I have a disagreement with.
If the blinds are 1,000/2,000 ---- and the first to act goes all in for 2,300.....
At our local poker establishment, in order to call his bet, you must call for at least 4,000! or all in. This is because technically he raised it to the 4,000 level. You can not call his 2,300 bet. Now, if you have put up the 4,000 and no one else bets, you pull your 1,700 bet back.
Is this correct on how they play it? Anyone with casino tournament regulation know if this is how it is supposed to be done.
They claim its in the official rules.
*****This is right because there are other plyers at the table who will come in behind you and it is technically a raise. If no one else calls you'll get the differance back ... if there are other callers there will be a second pot.
It's the same here in San Diego where I play.
*****weird on party poker tournaments, you are allowed to call the all in.
******hehe, I remembered when I was introduced to that, most likely at the same local bar in Kansas.
But, I did do some research and found that it is in fact played both ways.
I do disagree with it and it buts pressure on the people in-between the raiser (all-in) and the last to call.
Ex. I was playing at a final table. There was three of us in and now it is back to the SB who goes all-in. Even though it was only about a $500-1000 raise, the next guy has to call $4000. If he don't then I get to see the hand for the reduced rate. Which is what happened, he folded, I called the little change that was left, no pressure for me.
Seems to me this rule favors the small guy going all-in.
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Posted Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:53 am GMT by Dave B
I have never heard that rule before and I dont think it is a good one. You are aloud to call any bet. That is the rule-limit or nl.
In fact-in most places the rule is that if blinds are 1000/2000 and one player raises to 4000 and a third goes all in for 4001-5000, then that isnt even a raise and the original raiser can only call-he cannot raise the all in bet. An all in raise of less than 50% is not considered a raise.
Posted Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 pm GMT by Silencer
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If the blinds are 1,000/2,000 ---- and the first to act goes all in for 2,300.....
At our local poker establishment, in order to call his bet, you must call for at least 4,000! or all in. This is because technically he raised it to the 4,000 level. You can not call his 2,300 bet. Now, if you have put up the 4,000 and no one else bets, you pull your 1,700 bet back.
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I assume that the situation above is before the flop, and the person is calling the 2000 big blind and going all-in with his remaining 300 chips. This is a perfectly valid bet of 2300 and NOT 4000. He bet 2300 and you should only have to call 2300. Nobody has bet 4000 and you should not have to call a bet that nobody made. I am fairly certain that they are wrong and I would ask them (kindly) to show you where they got this rule.
I would think it's just a house rule they use. I've NEVER seen any such over-call requirement on WSOP or WPT, nor on any online site I've played at. Honestly, unless they admitted that it was a house rule or could provide absolute proof that it was an 'official' rule somewhere I wouldn't even play there. That has got to be one of the stupidest rules I've ever seen.
One thing I'd like to know is this. If somebody wants to re-raise is the minimum bet 2000 or 2300? At first I was thinking it was 2300 and wrote up a huge explination as to why. Now I can't figure out wtf I was thinking and am sure that the minimum bet is still 2000 (the size of the big blind) because nobody has bet more than that yet. I've got myself all confused so can somebody just confirm that the minimum bet would still be 2000?
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In fact-in most places the rule is that if blinds are 1000/2000 and one player raises to 4000 and a third goes all in for 4001-5000, then that isnt even a raise and the original raiser can only call-he cannot raise the all in bet. An all in raise of less than 50% is not considered a raise.
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I haven't heard this rule either. Where are you playing? If somebody raises to 4000 and the next guy goes all-in for 4001, he has re-raised and gone over the top of the previous better. Ok so it's a raise of 1 but it's still a raise.
If I was the person who bet 4000 and the next person "called" me for 4500 chips. I would contest that since he only "called" me I have the right to check and shouldn't have to put in the extra 500 chips. This is of course absurd and I must call the 500 chips. If I have to call chips though I was re-raised, not called, and since I was re-raised I should have the option to re-raise myself (of course in most situations this would be impossible since you're likely 1vs1 at this point and the other guy is already all-in).
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