Most Important aspect for Beginners to learn? Progression? |
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Posted Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:38 am GMT by mbmonk
Short Version of my question:
What is the most important aspect/aspects for a poker player to understand and what path would you suggest to learn that aspect/aspects
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Long, Drawout Version:
Needless to say, but I will anyway, I am a beginner in poker. After a bit of reading and searching for poker resources I have come to more questions than answers. So I am trying to find out what is the most important thing to learn in poker and then make my way toward learning that.
1) So from experienced players what single aspect of poker do you think a new player should learn/attempt to learn? Reading a oppenents betting habits? Agression relative to odds? etc..
There just seems to be so many aspects of poker it's hard for a new player to understand what is most important to learn.
2) What would you suggest to new players to learn first, then 2nd, then 3rd and so on?
For example should I learn Odds first, then Position 2nd, then pot managment, etc.
I think that would be a useful sticky for a begginers forum even though there are maybe no concesus path for beginners or consesus 'most important aspect' to learn.
It's just I am trying to decide on what book to buy but there are a ton of different books. Some stress the odds and position (nuts and botls), while other talk about reading opponents betting patterns (the psychological; game theory)
Should I post this in the general forum instead of beginner since I am looking for experienced advice?
Thanks for you time and this seems like a great community,
Mike
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Posted Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:58 am GMT by weirpougs
I would compare poker to learning to drive. There is a wealth of information to learn at the start and once you have it becomes 2nd nature.
First thing to learn:
Pre Flop starting hands.
You may of heard of the expression "know when to fold em' and when to hold em' " . This is all about pre flop decisons. Once you have cracked the starting hands you can often stumble through the rest of the hand and work out how you should play it.
Any book will probably teach you this, perhaps Lee jones winning low limit poker may help and Doyle Brunson's Super System 1 and 2.
But as like learning to drive, practice makes perfect. Books will only help you so much, you have to put the theroy into practice.
Posted Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:37 am GMT by tame_deuces
Patience, the value of dealt hands and pot odds/implied odds would top my list for things to learn first. Without those three a new poker player will most likely make very costly mistakes.
The nuisances of position will most likely become extremely clear when you play, just be aware that the worse your position is - the worse your hand usually is, the ifs and whys becomes clear soon enough.
Then I would proceed to learn when to check,bet, raise or call (a learning experience that will never really end for any poker player), something which is not always as easy as it sounds.
Then I would try to understand, apply and live with the more statistical concepts of the game.
Posted Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:59 am GMT by xhi
While in Real Estate the three most important things are Location, Location, Location the three most important things to learn in Poker are ....
PATIENCE!!!!!! PATIENCE!!!!!! and PATIENCE!!!!!!!
Find out what the top 10 starting hands are and play only those hands until you have mastered the patience to do so. Then and only then should you expand on those hands. It means a lot more fold 'em than hold 'em for the first few weeks. When you can win that way, and you can, then expand your horizons.
Posted Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:34 am GMT by mbmonk
Just wanted to say thanks for the tips and getting me headed in the right direction.
Thanks again,
Mike
Posted Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:46 pm GMT by supafrey
Don't listen to everything you read, though. 
Posted Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:08 pm GMT by lwestatbus
My suggestion is to really understand the concept of expected value in poker, which actually incorporates many of the other concepts from the other posters. I'm like you, a beginner and also using your approach--trying to learn one thing really well and then move on.
The problem with many rules of thumb (e.g., only play top ten hands) is that you can't adjust to circumstances as you move on to incorporate more aspects into your decision making. I therefore don't care for books that present lots of rules but no reasoning. E.g., let's say I've got really cruddy hole cards in the big blind playing low fixed limit. If the first to act raises, I know that he is a very loose raiser, and he gets six callers then it costs me one small bet to see 3/5 of the cards and have a chance at 15 small bets. Contrawise, I may have a draw to a monster hand but if there is only one aggressive player left the payoff may not be worth it.
My favorite book was Sklansky, Miller, and Malmouth on low limit Hold'em. They give you rules but provide the reasoning behind them.
Good luck.
BTW: I recommend starting with low fixed limit and incrementing from there.
Posted Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:22 am GMT by cheni
You can read a lot of great tips and sugestions like the ones above but at the end of the day you will just have to play a lot of poker and get your own feel for the game. Once you have your own feel all of this will come naturally.
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:14 pm GMT by jimmer
i'm gonna give you another option.
i personally feel if you are a total beginner, there are a few basic concepts, which are more important than the ones previously discussed.
don't get me wrong if you listen to the advice already discussed, you will go a long way, however.........
IF YOU ARE A TOTAL BEGINNER.......you need to understand the concept of folding. yes that's right. FOLDING.
please remember these rules (which everyone else is welcome to add to)
1. being dealt a pair of ace's will not guarantee you the pot. don't be scared to fold this hand (or any other) after seeing the flop, turn or river
There seems to be this theory that if you lose the pot with a great pocket pair, you are unlucky. to a certain degree this is true, but FOLDING when you are unsure about the opposition, or their cards, will save you a massive amount of money in the long run. these hands are beatable and never believe otherwise.
2. you don't need to protect you blinds. lot's of beginners feel that because they have had to put in a 'blind bet', you must protect that money. therefore when someone raises, you always call. THIS THEORY WILL DISTROY YOUR BANKROLL. DO NOT DO IT.
if anyone wants to add to this list, or indeed discuss further, please feel free.
the concept of poker is not the biggest hurdle when you are a beginner, it's the believing you can become a millionaire in weeks/months or years!!!! once you understand there's more to the game than decent cards and lots of money, you are half way there.
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:51 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I agree to an extent, but not folding aces that are beat will most likely be a pretty small leak even if leads to a big one time loss.
Ie. playing A5 offsuit from early position preflop will likely be a much bigger leak than not folding pocket aces on the turn because you are 90% likely to be up against a set. Smaller loss with the A5o yes, but it will happen much more.
And the big things you _remember_ anyway because they slap you in the face and say 'DUH'. The dozens of small leaks you will never see...only that one time you actually flopped two pair with A5 and won a big pot is what you remember, but it still makes it a bad play.
I think new poker players have more of a problem of WHERE they fold than anything else. Most of the folding should happen preflop, some on flop, a few on the turn, and a little on the river.
A typical calling station for instance will fold very rarely preflop but very often on the river. Costly.
Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:08 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Step 1) Know what you have.
Step 2) Know what your oppoent has.
Step 3) Know what your oppoent thinks you have.
Step 4) Know what your oppoent thinks you think he has.
Step 5) Play accordingly.
And play for real money!
| Quote: | | It's just I am trying to decide on what book to buy but there are a ton of different books. Some stress the odds and position (nuts and botls), while other talk about reading opponents betting patterns (the psychological; game theory) |
These are really the same. Every play you should make is based on your cards and what your oppoents' likely hands are. Good, solid, fundamental poker is not even close what you probably think it is. I remember having the idea that 'good' players wouldn't bluff/semi-bluff/steal blinds/spew chips in big pots/etc. I remember not wanting to put money in the pot 'til I was confident I would win it. I remember being more interested in keeping my varience low than maximizing my winnings. I could probably go on like this for hours.
Just think about all your options. Think about the consquences of each of them and go from there.
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