Kings between a rock and a maniac |
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Posted Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:25 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Low stakes online 6-max
UTG has 150~BB
MP has 50~ BB
Hero is UTG+1 with K  K  , covers
UTG is a timebomb. Total maniac, raises 9/10 hands. Calls almost anything, as long as he gets a piece, but can fold preflop to heavy pressure.
MP is the rock of rocks...this guy hasn't played his last 30 hands or so...in 6-max!
UTG raises 4x, Hero raises for 12 more, MP pushes, folds to utg who calls.
MP has either kings or aces, I've watched this guy play for about one hour and I'm dead certain he wouldn't push with QQ here. UTG probably has one or two face cards since he called, I think he would have pushed a PP or a strong ace.
What's my gameplan?
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Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:05 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Mini re-raise. You're getting great #s. Yeah you're probably beat by MP but he's only got 50BBs. UTG has 150. Even if you mini re-raise and he calls and gives you no further action you'll make nearly enough to break even even if you're beat by MP.
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:35 pm GMT by Phil14312
You might be surprised what MP shows here, it looks like you are trying to isolate a decent hand against the UTG maniac. You think if you were MP he would just flat push with KK or AA here. I think he makes a raise to half his stack, but not pushes.
JJ, QQ, or even AK look quite a bit more realistic for MP.
In which case you are golden.
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:49 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Phil14312 wrote: | JJ, QQ, or even AK look quite a bit more realistic for MP.
In which case you are golden. |
Yes, I agree. I was just confident he had aces, if I had thought there was a bigger chance of the hand range you describe, I'd push now and hopefully isolate MP and _maybe_ get a maniac call from UTG. I would never have folded my hand had only me and MP been in the pot, even if I was 99% sure he had aces. My money was going in here, my read just changed the way I wanted them to go in, if that makes sense. 
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Mini re-raise. You're getting great #s. Yeah you're probably beat by MP but he's only got 50BBs. UTG has 150. Even if you mini re-raise and he calls and gives you no further action you'll make nearly enough to break even even if you're beat by MP. |
This crossed my mind briefly. My gameplan was much the same, get enough money from UTG to break even or atleast win enough money from the sidepot to get better pot odds versus the possible 'aces'. I was a little hotheaded though, and I didn't want to to possibly lose UTG, so I called hoping to feign weakness and hopefully allow him to catch a piece of the flop. A mini re-raise might have been better.
As it was played:
Hero calls.
Flop: 6 Q J 
UTG pushes, Hero...?
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:37 pm GMT by Phil14312
UTG is a maniac....instacall.
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:22 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Phil14312 wrote: | | UTG is a maniac....instacall. |
It is true that he is a maniac, and this is probably an easy call.
But he just fired 100BBs into an empty sidepot.
And look closely at the texture of the flop and compare notes with your first post in this thread above...do you see why this call isn't as easy at first appears?
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:24 pm GMT by TheSalche
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Phil14312 wrote: | | UTG is a maniac....instacall. |
It is true that he is a maniac, and this is probably an easy call.
But he just fired 100BBs into an empty sidepot.
And look closely at the texture of the flop and compare notes with your first post in this thread above...do you see why this call isn't as easy at first appears? |
this is why you should re-raise villain after he calls ... he definetly hit this flop, and probably hit it hard with QJ
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:13 am GMT by tame_deuces
Oki, before I say how _this_ hand went...
I have a quiz, my answer might be wrong, but its still a quiz and I dare you to answer:
IF we assume that UTG is a rock solid no limit cash game player, with excellent understanding of the game, and he knows that you are a decent player...and this hand plays out as it did with him pushing:
1.) Should we hold or fold a set of jacks on this flop?
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:45 am GMT by Phil14312
1. I think you must call the maniac here with your overpair. His 100bb bet is less than the pot size right now (if MP pushed with 50bb with 2 callers). Against a maniac, with the options of calling or folding...I call everytime.
2. With a set of jacks, without further information, I call here everytime as well. What if he is rock-solid? Do you mean rockish or do you mean really good pre and post-flop player. In any situation...you are only behind to one hand QQ, and I don't think that hand pushes on the flop.
Plus...this is all 6-max, which is quite a bit more agressive (from my experience) than the standard ring game.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:22 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Ok, here is how the _real_ hand went by:
The only issue to answer in this call was this:
Is UTG moronic enough to believe that a pair of 6s,jacks or queens can win against MP - remember if I fold he only competes for the main pot. The answer was ofcourse a resounding yes, this guy was as horrible as they get, he probably didn't even know what a sidepot or mainpot was.
Flop: 6 Q J
UTG pushes, Hero calls.
Hero shows KK
UTG shows K Q
MP shows A A
Turn: Q
River: K
Hero wins both the sidepot and the mainpot with a full house, kings full of queens.
Always trust on me to pull a one-outer when I need one.
I might add that MP was not happy with the outcome.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:59 pm GMT by suitedaces84
I still don't get why you didn't re-re-re-raise preflop. UTG doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would call off 50BBs and fold for another 38, that's all.
nh!
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:06 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| suitedaces84 wrote: | I still don't get why you didn't re-re-re-raise preflop. UTG doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would call off 50BBs and fold for another 38, that's all.
nh! |
Yes, in retrospect I _totally_ agree. Also such a re-raise would actually give UTG a sidepot to try and steal with a bluff, which obviously is great for our hand. I think that is a very nifty side-effect of a PF raise too.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:13 pm GMT by Phil14312
But how close were you to breaking shit when that Q came on the turn?
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:22 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Phil14312 wrote: | | But how close were you to breaking shit when that Q came on the turn? |
Not very happy.
Prima deals all-in situations pretty fast though, so I was like this:
 ->  -> :x -> :D -> in a timeframe of about 3 seconds.
Verbally I was like Ye..fu...yess!
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