Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:56 am GMT by Xamzax
I hear players say that any suited ace in high low is a good hand to play.. I have to say, I toss away suited aces all the time. Am I wrong in doing so is the main question.
I don't believe so. The goal of any hi/lo game is to generate scooped pots and with a suited ace you are vulnerable.. even if you have the nuts.
What you need when you determine playing or folding your hand is multiple ways of getting at that pot. Alone, a suited ace is a suited ace. You are only using 1/2 the cards available to you. You don't hit the flush draw very often, and, when you do hit it, sometimes you lose the pot to a full house.
The other problem of having the nut high on the flop with only the suited ace for a flush is that low draws take half your pot from you at the end, reducing your pot odds by 1/2. If by playing aggressively on the flop you are able to reduce yourself to 2 low draws of differing strength, you'll get some *more* chips in the center - but you still lose half at the end if they make their draw.. worse, if they have a high draw to go with it and make something stronger when the board pairs on the river.
Oh I'm certainly not begrudging having a nut flush.. I'll take it every time rather than release it. I'll still make money with it too... but only IF I hit my one and only draw.
Rather than playing a hand like --- As, 5s, 9d, Jh
I'll fold. What are the odds for making a flush on the flop? Or a flush draw on the flop? And making it on the turn? And when the board pairs on the turn and you've already called one bet on the flop, are you going to hunt for the flush even though the full house could easily be out there? So many ways to lose.
I tell new 8 or better players to prepare to fold and fold often. They are right in doing so and sometimes fall into the deep deep sleep of waiting for proper starting hands. Omaha is profitable because merely waiting for good hands and playing them for positive expectation yields larger pots... other people are playing too loose. They won a hand with that suited ace two days ago, it could happen again.
10 handed table: If you are playing more than 1/4 of the hands, you're playing far too marginal hands. In fact, if you are playing more than 1/8 hands at a particularly loose table, you'll be in serious trouble.
5 handed table: Here the blinds come around much faster and you must increase the number of hands you enter the pot with. Position becomes more important for most good players styles. Position becomes about earning an extra bet at the right time. Five handed, I'll play around 1/4 of hands dealt to me.
Heads up: I'll fold hands like: QQQ3; KKKK; J682 to a raise from a sophisticated player who raises properly preflop... and any seriously hideously unconnected hands --- to a raise from that same seriously sophisticated player. Playing the trip or quaded hands means that some of your outs are sitting in your pocket. You can't use them there! That gives an edge to your opponent.
Also, raising on the button is not something you do every chance you get unless it's the proper style against your opponent. I see people using the same notions that others have in hold em heads up. The problem with doing this is your raising may win you a few bluffs, but it simultaneously gives your opponent the ability to predict your betting pattern.
When they have a darn good hand, they give you more opportunities to bluff and because the bluffer has invested so much, when he is check raised, he often calls the flop bet and has lost not one, not two, but three bets. That betting pattern has been my happiest profit in omaha.
When is raising on the button everytime correct? When your opponent is so weak that he folds more than he should on average. We're talking super tight guy here.
1. You raise to 20 preflop, your opponent only has to call 20 to contest a pot of 60. His hand may be, on average, a 35% to win. He is almost always getting proper odds to call and see a flop.
2. If he folds even 1/4 of the time, you're going to see a profit. Why? Because the times he folded the better hand, he made a mistake and that is YOUR edge. The times he called with the better hand and you drew out on him, that is also profitable. You may even get his small blind when he panics to see a marginal hand and doesn't even call your big blind when he's on the button! Hilarious. This is another money printer.
How do you defend against those that raise preflop? Just as Caro said, to battle a poker bully - call more often, raise less. Slow play much more often to induce those bluffs. Don't just raise, check raise. Take those draws as cheaply to the river as you can. In position, buy a free card for the turn with your good draws.
Last bit of advice here..
Learn basic omaha limit high strategy. The fewer the people involved in the hand, the more likely you are playing omaha high.. the low becomes a safety net, not a method of gaining profit. Lows profit when there are 3 or more in the hand, not when it's heads up.
When you make a high hand and keep betting into your opponent, it seems pretty frustrating for you when he calls all the way and gets back half the pot. But since his lows are going to be marginal most of the time, occasionally you'll scoop both ways when your marginal low and your better high beats his. If you flop a marginal low but have no potential to the high, you fold to his bet. That's profit. Folding is profit.
Folding is how you make your profit in omaha 8 at the end of the day.
Learn not just the hands to play, but how to know the best time to fold the hands you are dealt.
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Posted Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:00 am GMT by Xamzax
One last thing I forgot to mention is this
Find what limits you are most comfortable and master them. I'm much happier in the lower limit games where people are slightly looser on average. But that is because I'm a technical player when it comes to omaha... where reading your opponent can be deceptive - they don't always know their hand is not as great as it seems.
If you go to a higher limit game and find yourself losing - hop off that table and find something cheaper for a while. Not every person can use the same playing style needed in higher limit games.
Posted Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:25 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Usually in High/Low games with a qualifier, you are looking for good high hands with good low potential. AA23 double-suited is premium because it is a great high hand (pair of aces, both suited), with the best low potential (3 lows, all of which are the nuts).
Your are right to fold As, 5s, 9d, Jh. That is a junk hand--it has little high value outside the suited ace, and it can draw only to one low, which is the nuts in only one condition.
A2 is a good combination, but I think some players go too far in saying that you should always play it for any number of bets. A2 is a strong hand because it often makes the nut low, but if there is a lot of raising/re-raises pre-flop and on the flop, there's a good chance one or more people have A2 as well, along with re-draws, so you risk getting quartered (or split further, or worse, counterfeited). A2 I would say is an automatic play only if your ace is suited and you (possibly) have other decent high cards, connectors, or any pair, or you're in a loose game with bad opponents.
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