"I check to you, sir" (Casino question) |
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Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:54 am GMT by Kalbelgarion
Last time I went to the Casino, I hit up the $1/$3 Limit Hold 'Em table. There was one fellow there who, whenever he was out of position, would check before the flop, turn, or river so that he would be able to act last. He'd say some smart-alec quip like "I check you to, sir," and then be in position.
Is this legal? Is there any way to get around this move?
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Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:28 am GMT by supafrey
not in texas holdem, no.
and by that i mean.. sure you're allowed to check in the "dark" as it is put, but it doesn't MAGICALLY give you the button. You still act in the order you're supposed to, you've just chosen to do it regardless of what the next card about to be peeled off may be.
Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:52 am GMT by Geno
If he checks in the dark from first position and all the other players in the hand check, he doesn't get to act before the next card is dealt. Checking in the dark is retarded, I pretty much fail to see how it achieves anything opponents are stupid enough to be put off by these sort of antics.
Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:36 am GMT by zinn0
| Geno wrote: | | If he checks in the dark from first position and all the other players in the hand check, he doesn't get to act before the next card is dealt. Checking in the dark is retarded, I pretty much fail to see how it achieves anything opponents are stupid enough to be put off by these sort of antics. |
But Helmuth does it Geno...it must be genius!
Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:49 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Geno wrote: | | If he checks in the dark from first position and all the other players in the hand check, he doesn't get to act before the next card is dealt. Checking in the dark is retarded, I pretty much fail to see how it achieves anything opponents are stupid enough to be put off by these sort of antics. |
In the cash games all of us play in Geno, there is almost no reason to check-raise. The only reason anyone would do it at any stakes is for psychological reasons, because oppponents often want to see what a dark-check really means. At low stakes, however, your "artful" move is more likely to get you branded as someone who takes the game too seriously, and it won't really help you.
At least half the time I've seen Phil do it, I think it's idiotic.
Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:08 pm GMT by TheSalche
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | At least half the time I've seen Phil do it, I think it's idiotic. |
Just half?
Hellmuth has the worst case of Fancy Play Syndrome I've ever seen.
Posted Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:52 pm GMT by JonnyBoy
| Quote: | | I pretty much fail to see how it achieves anything |
A blind check out of the blind after flopping a made hand is very profitable. I talking about live LIMIT poker.
I do it and will continue to do it. Im not at the table to make any friends. 
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:12 am GMT by Aves
| Quote: | Quote:
I pretty much fail to see how it achieves anything
A blind check out of the blind after flopping a made hand is very profitable. I talking about live LIMIT poker.
I do it and will continue to do it. Im not at the table to make any friends. |
Actually, you are probably missing out on some profit because you are removing your ability to bet/3bet, and collect even more money from callers caught in the middle. A checkraise/4bet is pretty rare so I won't even consider that.
Also, if you are playing versus a smart opponent, you'll actually end up losing money if he checks behind your darkcheck with a flush draw when you flop a straight or 2 pair and he hits on the turn. Like many have said before, there are no real advantages to darkchecking.
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:54 am GMT by suitedaces84
David Williams offered a pretty good explaination of it a few years back in the WSOP.
He had 55. He ended up getting 1/3 of his stack in preflop vs Josh Areih (sp*). He was out of position. He checked in the dark.
He said he did it because he thought Josh had AK or AQ and knew he would bet when checked to.
The flop was A5x. Areih went all-in on the flop. David called and doubled up. Areih berated him for calling off 1/3 of his stack with 55 preflop. And everyone lived happily ever after.
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:05 pm GMT by ORGrinder
unless i'm confused as to what you're describing - this wouldn't make much difference anyway. if he checks when he's not first to act, and someone else bets in front of him, he still has to call or fold since you obviously cant check after a bet.
what am i missing here?
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:05 pm GMT by Cyberhwk
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | David Williams offered a pretty good explaination of it a few years back in the WSOP. |
Yeah, he used this manuver to perfection (although I guess flopping a set helped). By checking in the dark he gives up the chance to raise if Arieh checks behind, but he also gets to conceal whether or not he hit the flop because he declared before he saw any cards. It was impossible for Arieh to have any idea what kind of hand he had.
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:07 pm GMT by groton
the only time i check in the dark is in a turny and someone is already all in and i want to check it down.
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:26 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| ORGrinder wrote: | unless i'm confused as to what you're describing - this wouldn't make much difference anyway. if he checks when he's not first to act, and someone else bets in front of him, he still has to call or fold since you obviously cant check after a bet.
what am i missing here? |
I'm not too sure of it myself, but I think it was along the lines of he didn't want to give any tells.
Posted Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:02 pm GMT by Geno
Hang on, you can only check in the dark if you are in first position after the flop/turn/river etc. You can't say check in another position, that is absolutely meaningless since, like Org says, if someone bets your check means nothing.
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:00 am GMT by suitedaces84
I guess I didn't make it clear. But Williams was first to act on the flop.
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:05 am GMT by Dave B
Geno, I have seen 3-4 players dark check to a preflop raiser, or just do it to be cute, one does it, so they all do it.
I think it is a hack move that is WAY overdone.
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:29 am GMT by Geno
I guess you could dark check after the player (with position) to your right has done it but that just makes you even more retarded in my book 
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:58 am GMT by TheSalche
posting in this forum so it looks like i post everywhere ...
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:27 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | the only time i check in the dark is in a turny and someone is already all in and i want to check it down. |
Spelling and grammatical errors aside, I agree with this statement.
I've seen people do it after calling a big preflop raise, but I've yet to see it accomplish anything other than the occasional strange look from your opponent.
And, I can't have the Salche outposting me. 
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:29 pm GMT by TheSalche
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | And, I can't have the Salche outposting me. |
The "t" in "The" is capitalized ...
don't you forget that.
Posted Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:28 pm GMT by The Mad Viking
Hi, I'm a newbie.
The advantage of the last position is that you get more information. Darkchecking means taking an action without knowing WHAT YOUR OWN CARDS ARE, when this information if FREE.
That is why it is retarded.
You can choose to check-raise off a good hand consistently when the table is big and rarely miss a chance. But when it does check all the way around, you have given a bunch of crap hands that would have folded a chance to flop 2 pair or a set.
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:15 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | The "t" in "The" is capitalized ... |
I stand corrected, your majesty. Please forgive me for the terrible oversight. 
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:38 am GMT by UrAteUp
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | | The "t" in "The" is capitalized ... |
I stand corrected, your majesty. Please forgive me for the terrible oversight. |
Only cap that T when he agrees to get another picture without the pink polo....
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