This is probably not the way to play it either. |
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Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:40 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Hand history is abit murky, since it was live hand I played last month.
I think everyone is pretty much at the 100BB mark. NL cashgame.
UTG is a good player, solid and plays a tight game.
Hero has played a very tight game.
Hero is MP with AKo.
UTG limps, Folds to hero, Hero raises 5x,folds UTG who calls.
Flop: 2  9  K 
UTG checks, Hero bets 2/3, UTG calls.
Turn 10
UTG checks, Hero checks.
River 2 
UTG bets 2/3, Hero calls.
Thoughts?
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Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:50 pm GMT by supafrey
It's fine, the way I see it.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:12 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Why not bet the turn, and check behind on the river? Checking the turn opens up all kinds of ugliness if he gets friskier than 2/3 pot on the river.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:16 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Hmmm... looks to me like your calling against at least a set.
He check/calls on the flop and then checks the turn... probably hoping you bet. He then bets out on the river. The very worst hand he can put you on is a pair of kings (which you have) but he still bets into you. Unless he is a complete tool or very very aggressive I would say you have this one lost. Pot odds probably say you should call, but it would be a crying one on my part.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:33 pm GMT by supafrey
soup: disagree. If I had jacks or queens and I saw someone make a continuation bet, I'd call. I'd then play the turn weak, and if he doesn't raise I'd expect a pp as well, or an AQ or a Kx. Betting 2/3 pot would be a smart bet, especially with people like you undervaluing Ak 
Although the turn bet is a nice move, too, perhaps.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:35 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Soup_dog wrote: | | Hmmm... looks to me like your calling against at least a set. |
I don't see it that way at all. If villain has AK/KQ/KJ/QQ/JJ, he probably takes this same line as well.
| Soup_dog wrote: | | The very worst hand he can put you on is a pair of kings (which you have). |
If hero misses a flop with AQ/AJ or is holding QQ/JJ, then he probably bets the flop, checks behind on the turn. Hero could have much worse than kings in this spot.
That's why I don't like the turn check. It opens up villain's range of hands he can lead with on the river, almost forcing a call.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:53 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Wow. I guess I give other guys too much credit. Thanks for the feedback, I will try and keep that in mind.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:01 pm GMT by Phil14312
I think this type of play is very player-dependent.
If villain is a player who would call down with a weaker king, or a smaller pocket pair, then bet the turn. If villain is aggressive and may try a big c/r bluff on the turn then i check the turn and call the pot-size bet on the river. Usually, against typical aggressive players, if you check behind on the turn then they will make a big bet with just about any hand.
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:20 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| Phil14312 wrote: | I think this type of play is very player-dependent.
If villain is a player who would call down with a weaker king, or a smaller pocket pair, then bet the turn. If villain is aggressive and may try a big c/r bluff on the turn then i check the turn and call the pot-size bet on the river. Usually, against typical aggressive players, if you check behind on the turn then they will make a big bet with just about any hand. |
So you can use that as a trapping manuever?
Posted Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:57 pm GMT by tutubird
The only possible hands I see are KQ KJ or 99, I woulden't put him on QQ or JJ because I would expect him to raise preflop. Although I do agree that the turn should have been bet.
Posted Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:45 am GMT by Phil14312
| Soup_dog wrote: | | Phil14312 wrote: | I think this type of play is very player-dependent.
If villain is a player who would call down with a weaker king, or a smaller pocket pair, then bet the turn. If villain is aggressive and may try a big c/r bluff on the turn then i check the turn and call the pot-size bet on the river. Usually, against typical aggressive players, if you check behind on the turn then they will make a big bet with just about any hand. |
So you can use that as a trapping manuever? |
I find, at the levels of NL cash games I play online ($100 NL), that there a certain breed of players who, if you check through on the turn after raising pre-flop and betting the flop will almost 100% of the time make about a pot size bet on the river. It is specifically against these types of players that I may make that play with. I don't run the risk of being c/r off my hand on the turn and I can induce a bluff from a lot of hands AK beats.
Posted Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:28 am GMT by Soup_dog
| Phil14312 wrote: | | Soup_dog wrote: | | Phil14312 wrote: | I think this type of play is very player-dependent.
If villain is a player who would call down with a weaker king, or a smaller pocket pair, then bet the turn. If villain is aggressive and may try a big c/r bluff on the turn then i check the turn and call the pot-size bet on the river. Usually, against typical aggressive players, if you check behind on the turn then they will make a big bet with just about any hand. |
So you can use that as a trapping manuever? |
I find, at the levels of NL cash games I play online ($100 NL), that there a certain breed of players who, if you check through on the turn after raising pre-flop and betting the flop will almost 100% of the time make about a pot size bet on the river. It is specifically against these types of players that I may make that play with. I don't run the risk of being c/r off my hand on the turn and I can induce a bluff from a lot of hands AK beats. |
Nice play. I will need to keep my eyes open for that. Thanks!
Posted Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:46 am GMT by tame_deuces
My reasoning for checking behind on the turn is pretty much the same reasoning that Phil explained in his posts. Its basically a no limit variation of the limit trick of letting a bluffer 'hang himself' with his own betting while at the same time not risking a c/r from a superiour hand + you probably earn yourself an extra bet if you are ahead.
On the downside you offer infinite odds to the opponents hand if he is behind but may catch up, a little more dangerous in NL. But since on this board there are no draws I could logically put my opponent on and I felt there was a big chance I was trailing in the hand, and I had a big chance an opponent would bet a weaker hand on the river, I went for the check behind.
My opponent showed a weaker king (I can't remember which one), so I may have lost some value here, but who knows, I may actually have earned some value too.
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:26 pm GMT by arras
One more way not to play AKo:
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (9 handed) converter
CO ($5.80)
Button ($1.15)
Hero ($7.80)
BB ($3.25)
UTG ($4.85)
UTG+1 ($5.80)
MP1 ($6.25)
MP2 ($4.50)
MP3 ($5.36)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A.
UTG calls $0.10, 5 folds, Button calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.4, BB calls $0.30, UTG calls $0.30, Button calls $0.30.
Flop: ($1.60) 6, T, K (4 players)
Hero bets $0.9, BB calls $0.90, UTG calls $0.90, Button folds.
Turn: ($4.30) 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $4.3, BB folds, UTG calls $3.55 (All-In).
River: ($12.15) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: $12.15
Results in white below:
Hero has Ks Ac (one pair, kings).
UTG has Qd Jc (straight, king high).
Outcome: UTG wins $11.40. Hero wins $0.75.
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