Posted Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:44 pm GMT by Skribbles
EP: Covers all
MP: 60,000
Hero in SB: 150,000
BB: 80,000
Hero is dealt 8  7
Blinds: 2000/4000
EP min raises to 8,000
MP re-raises to 20,000
Hero Calls
BB folds
EP folds
I called thinking the BB and EP were going to call. BB was very loose and EP had plenty of chips to call the small raise.
Flop: 6 4  3
I check to MP knowing that he is going to push, which he did.
MP pushes his last 30,000 to make the pot 80,000 in total.
If he doesn't have an overpair (which he very well could) I have 10 outs.
I'm getting the right odds if he doesn't have an overpair.
Do you call?
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Posted Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:59 pm GMT by Dave B
no
Posted Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:26 pm GMT by JpForum
You have plenty of outs... it depends on if you wanna gamble
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:26 am GMT by Phil14312
Well, you didn't give many specifics, final table...bubble?
But short answer no...most times you will have 4 outs, and 1 of those outs might give an opponent with an overpair a redraw.
I also fold preflop.
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:51 am GMT by Hurricane Ham
No. You're just going to double up MP more often than not, and waste 50000 valuable chips in the process.
If MP had two big cards, I wouldn't be surprised if he just pushed pre flop, as is the case with many players and big cards in these tournaments (assuming this is the 5 dollar rebuy you did yesterday.) Just reraising and not pushing pre flop leads me to believe he wants action, implying a big pair. This is partially dependant on how MP has been playing, however, but seems like an overpair to me.
If you're positive he's got two big cards, it's still an iffy call in spite of the odds, mostly because calling and losing takes a third of your stack. AK is crushing you right now, which is always a dangerous possibility.
Posted Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:28 pm GMT by ZZZinindy
Do you call? No
I'm not even playing that hand let alone that flop in that situation.
ZZZ
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:05 am GMT by screwthepooch
That preflop call is way too loose in my opinion for final table play. Any time you're at a final table and two other players want to get involved, unless you have a great hand, fold and let them duke it out. Usually the payout is so skewed that it is supremely worth it to try and let someone else get eliminated first.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:14 pm GMT by Skribbles
| screwthepooch wrote: | | Any time you're at a final table.... |
It wasn't a final table. There were about 70-80 poeple left at this point.
The pre-flop call was based on my thinking that the other two players would call. BB was ultra loose and would call a raise with even thinking about it. UTG min-raised which means he either has a monster (AA or KK) or a mid-PP, both of which he would call the small re-raise with having another player or two in the pot.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:59 pm GMT by Loonbat
You have 5 outs - any 5 or the backdoor flush draw (approx 1 out). Not good enough to call with ...
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:17 pm GMT by Skribbles
| Loonbat wrote: | | You have 5 outs - any 5 or the backdoor flush draw (approx 1 out). Not good enough to call with ... |
This is true if he has an overpair which he prolly did but he could also be in love w/ AK which would give me 10 outs + backdoor.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:41 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Personally I'd ditch that hand pre-flop at this stage as well, especially since it looks like MP is looking for a chance to push.
Also, given that you suspect he wants to push, if you intend on calling his all-in, I would rather see you bet the size of his stack rather than check. Now, he'll have a hard time calling WITHOUT an overpair for the rest of his stack. If he has just two overcards (AK most likely), you have at least 10 outs, and flush possibilities if a heart falls on the turn. With 30,000 chips, it's possible he would fold his overcards and you could take a pot you would otherwise have to race for.
Personally though, I don't you can CALL on the flop.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:49 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| Skribbles wrote: | | screwthepooch wrote: | | Any time you're at a final table.... |
It wasn't a final table. There were about 70-80 poeple left at this point.
The pre-flop call was based on my thinking that the other two players would call. BB was ultra loose and would call a raise with even thinking about it. UTG min-raised which means he either has a monster (AA or KK) or a mid-PP, both of which he would call the small re-raise with having another player or two in the pot. |
Wow, that is a lot of chips to have with that many people left! Did you start with a lot of chips are were there a zillion people in the tourney?
Personally, I think the pre-flop call is a little loose. You want to play hands like 87s against multiple opponents for a cheap price - Neither of these criteria fit this example (Short handed, big pre flop raise).
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:53 pm GMT by Skribbles
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: |
Personally though, I don't you can CALL on the flop. |
Everyone prettty much agrees on the bad pre-flop call. As I've stated, I was pretty darn sure that the BB and UTG would call.
Do you still believe its a bad call if there are already 3 people in the pot?
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:59 pm GMT by Skribbles
| 1988 TR wrote: |
Wow, that is a lot of chips to have with that many people left! Did you start with a lot of chips are were there a zillion people in the tourney? |
It was a $5 rebuy so there was plenty of chips in play.
| 1988 TR wrote: |
Personally, I think the pre-flop call is a little loose. You want to play hands like 87s against multiple opponents for a cheap price - Neither of these criteria fit this example (Short handed, big pre flop raise). |
| Skribbles wrote: |
I called thinking the BB and EP were going to call. BB was very loose and EP had plenty of chips to call the small raise
|
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:08 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Skribbles wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: |
Personally though, I don't you can CALL on the flop. |
Everyone prettty much agrees on the bad pre-flop call. As I've stated, I was pretty darn sure that the BB and UTG would call.
Do you still believe its a bad call if there are already 3 people in the pot? |
No no... the pre-flop call isn't as bad if you think action is coming. What I said was I don't think you can call 30k more on the FLOP.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:39 pm GMT by DougisRad
| JpForum wrote: | | You have plenty of outs... it depends on if you wanna gamble |
No he doesn't.
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