Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:39 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
Time was when i would pretty much re-raise all in with AK if there was a raise before me, but lately i've actually managed to lay it down in a couple of situations! 
In this situation i had a minimum raise from Middle Position followed by an all in reraise, so i'm sitting there with AKoff and what's going thru my head? "OMG! I think i might be able to lay this down here!"
To be honest the min raise scared the jeebus out of me in the first place, it's a popular move by ppl with a small pocket pair who want to raise to eliminate the blinds but don't want to raise more cos they aren't that strong.
The all in reraise was from a shortish stack but it was still about 900 chips (9x bb) I have 2300 and i have both of them covered quite comfortably. But it's still early in this ($50) sng and there's still 8 players left so i'd be risking half of my hard won stack.
I figure one has a pp and the other has Ax so i'm right to dump AK in this situation aren't i? I figure i'm behind and 1 of my outs is gone right?
As it turned out tho ......
PokerStars Game #3569970120: Tournament #17717693, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/01/08 - 07:16:55 (ET)
Table '17717693 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: jullum (875 in chips)
Seat 3: ripcord9 (1415 in chips)
Seat 4: StrungOut1 (1530 in chips)
Seat 5: GreatWhite74 (2485 in chips)
Seat 6: tallen123 (1355 in chips)
Seat 7: astan (2565 in chips)
Seat 8: donaldquixot (915 in chips)
Seat 9: DeepRed2 (2360 in chips)
DeepRed2: posts small blind 50
jullum: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DeepRed2  
ripcord9: folds
StrungOut1: folds
GreatWhite74: folds
tallen123: raises 100 to 200
astan: folds
donaldquixot: raises 715 to 915 and is all-in
DeepRed2: folds
jullum: folds
tallen123: calls 715
*** FLOP ***   
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tallen123: shows   (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
donaldquixot: shows   (two pair, Queens and Jacks - Ace kicker)
donaldquixot collected 1980 from pot
I would have had the best starting hand but still have been 3rd, i picked don's hand nicely, but i didn't figure tallen for being a muppet, just as well for me that i gave him more credit than he deserved. 
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Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:05 am GMT by ComedyBee
Yeah.
I would have put tallon on a better hand than that, like you said, a low pair or the like. Welll keep notes on that guy. The interesting thing being that had tallon not raised the other guy might not have gone in and after the flop you could have knicked it.
CB
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:26 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
Interesting, I think if tallen hadn't raised then don would have, at which point i would have reraised him, probably putting him all in, with AQ and half his stack in the middle he would have called and i would be writing a bad beat story instead 
I think the point of this tho is that in this situation i was right to lay down AK preflop no matter how events proceeded?
Whatchu think? Would you have played AK behind 2 raises? If so how?
I feel I was correct to assume that i wasn't favourite and that at least one of my outs was gone. Of course this is based on the other players having a clue.
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:02 pm GMT by ComedyBee
I would definately not have called his all in with AK, but 2 single-bet raises i might have seenteh flop.. For two reasons:
1) I used to over value AK, and like we agreed, he was screaming pair. That puts you 55-45 down against one person, the other guy being in, well i couldn't put a read on him, which means that the odds are even more against you.
2) It seems that this is the stage of the tourney where people are trying to get luck to stay in, for the cash. If i have enough i tend to try and last that out unless they are VERY short stacked or i am very largely stacked. Usually you need to try and be a fox here, hunting the get-rich-now-or-never rabbits, but he had an ok stack and could do you damage.
Here i would only have called with JJs or above.
Thats my view,
CB
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:52 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
It's a good view Bee, i have overvalued AK in the past both to my cost and my gain, As you say there is plenty of time, i got a decent enough stack to be going on with. So it's actually quite an easy pass. I think even JJ might be touch n go here but as i have them both well enough covered it's probably a chance worth taking so good call on that one.
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:27 pm GMT by ComedyBee
Thanks. Good lay down. :D
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:30 pm GMT by TxShadow
I would have assumed at least one of them had a PP and that any call by me would end up being a coinflip. As it turns out, you had the best hand but would have ended up losing anyway. I don't think there's enough positive outcome that could happen here that would be worth risking that many of your chips early on in a tourney. I like the lay down personally.
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:48 pm GMT by Geno
It's a good laydown. Realistically, you have to put one of them on a pocket pair and the other on a high AX so you know that you are going in behind and one of your outs is already missing.
Posted Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:58 pm GMT by JpForum
I usually fold AK if 2 or more people have made big raises or are all-in in front of me (this doesnt happen very often). Ak is a great drawing hand but its a coinflip against most pocket pairs and chances are that one of the people in the hand with you will have the ace in common.
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