this live hand put a guy on tilt so bad he threatened me |
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Posted Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:12 am GMT by raisebot
Ok, I don't post here much at all, my only real notable thread was the $1400 NL bluff at the Palms thread, but this hand happened to me tonight at Santa fe Station (Northwest Las Vegas, NV).
The game is $4/$8, with a half-kill. They have some f*ck up blind structure of $1/$2, presumably because they have a $280,000 super bad beat jackpot of quad 9's beaten. Needless to say, this is always one wild and f*ck up game. Please excuse the language, but that's the only way to describe it. Play $4/$8 there and you're either going to drop 2 racks real quick or walk out with 4. :D
First hand I come in, I'm on the big blind, I get pocket 6's, a short stack on the button raises, I reraise, only 1 other player besides the button calls. I flop a 6 and check. Mid Position checks, button bets. I call. Turn a blank,I bet, middle pos calls, button reraise all in, I reraise, mid position folds, river a blank and I take it down with my set. All is still cool, everyone says nice hand and all.
Second hand, my SB, I have A5, UTG raises to 6 (remember, $1/$2 blinds), like 7 people call, so I say WTF and reraise it, just basically building a pot & giving a loose impression (the table is already very loose, I'm just trying to fit in). I called a $4 bet on the flop to hope for a running straight and/or flush, missed, and then folded. I showed my A5 & kinda laughed it off, I said "I was just trying to build a pot" and that's somewhat true...
I then folded some J2 or some crap on the button.
Now here's the hand, keep in mind I only played those 3 previous hands I just mentioned, so nobody really haas an image of me. One hand I flopped and slow played a set, the next hand I reraised with garbage & showed it, and then I fold the button...
For ease of reading this hand table I made, explaining each exact play in the hand, figure I am in seat 9, the button is seat 10, the SB is seat 1, and BB is seat 2:
Seat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9(Q Q )10(Button)
$1 $2 F $2 F $2 F $2 $2 $6(R)
$5(Ca) $4(Ca) $4(Ca) F $4(Ca) $8 ($10)(ReR) $8 ($14; CAP)
$8(Ca) $8(Ca) $8(Ca) $8(Ca) $4(Ca)
___________________________________________________
$14 $14 $14 $2 $14 $14 $14 = $86 BEFORE RAKE/PREFLOP
my thoughts preflop- I pretty much knew there was going to be plenty of people seeing the flop, at pretty much any price, yet someone was due to raise after me, likely the button or the blinds. The button raised, just about everyone called, I then reraised (remember my "build a pot image a previously gave off LOL), button capped it, like almost everyone stays in.
FLOP- A73
Ck Ck Ck Ck Ck $4
F $4 F $4 $4
___________________________________________________
$4 $4 $4 $4 = $16 BET ON FLOP, + $86 = $102 BEFORE DROP
I did not like the flop. With 6 people seeing the flop, it was likely at least 2 of them were holding aces. Until they started checking. This is a game where everyone wants as much in the pot as possible. Early position aces would definitely bet, but everyone was checking. I knew the button would bet, I really put him on pocket 10's, especially capping it preflop and decided to use this to my advantage. I knew he'd bet, other's would likely think he's representing an ace, hopefully they'll fold, and I can possibly get heads up with this guy. He has like no chips left, I'll let him bet for me, if I'm beat, well, then fu.k me he was 4 betting with AK or something, oh well...
TURN-6
Ck Ck Ck $6;ALL IN
F $6(Ca) $6(Ca)
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$6 $6 $6= $18 BET ON TURN, + $102= $120, NOW 1 PLAYER ALL-IN
4 people see the turn, we all check to the button, the raising guy. He goes all in for $6.Somewhat surprisingly, a player decides to fold at this point, and the next player just calls. Now what the hell do I do? I think about raising for a good 20 seconds or so, I just KNOW he's on a draw here. Is he holding 8/9? a pair of 's. I can swear he does NOT have the Ace, nor does he have 2 pair or better. Against lack of better judgement, I just call, even though I KNEW I should have at least tried to build a side pot...
RIVER -Q 
Ck $8(bet)
F -$8 rebate
____________________________________________________
$0 $120 POT, - $4 rake/marketing dollar= $116 Main Pot
HELL YEAH, MONEY CARD!. The other player checked, I tried to put on an act, & reluctantly bet, but he quickly folded, definitely missed his draw. The all in player quickly turned over his AJ, top pair, then I turned over my hate-inducing pocket queens...
Total invested seat 9 beginning through end of hand, $24, resulting in $92 Profit.
Complainer, seat 10, the button, also the initial raiser, & re-reraiser, was holding onto AJoffsuit. He bitched, moaned,& repeatedly threatened me, however I repeatedly left him speechless with a couple spur of the moment comments, the best of which was "at least I didn't 4 bet and put all my money into AJ offsuit..." He said "What??!?!", to which I promptly repeateded myself exactly. His then retort was "skinny guys shouldn't be allowed to play"; to which I replied "Thanks for your money". Disgruntled & pissed off, with the dealer and single floorman trying to quell the situation, kept telling us "It's over, drop it"; which is then I would reply "Hey I'm not the one bitching, he's pissed he dumped his money on ace-jack offsuit against my queens". The ace/jack loser then told the floorman, "I promise nothing will ever happen on this property, but If I ever see him outside somewhere else, -he never finished his comment- at which point he took out 2 twenty dollar bills and asked for $40 in chips. Figuring I'd piss him off some more, I say I'll sell him the $40 in chips. They say money doesn't play so I cant do it. Taking advantage of this situation, I say "It's okay, I'm leaving anyway. I took all his money, I don't need his last $40 in chips. I just sell him his $40 and go". He was f*cking fuming. I initally bought in for a rack ($100), played exactly 3 hands,(won the 1st hand, my big blind, when I flopped a set of 6's), and cashed out $170, + the $40 I sold in chips to the sore loser.
I usually try to be humble when winning, but this guy's comments out of nowhere threw me off the edge. I'm not going to hesitate to throw $4 into a $98 pot on the turn when I figure one person's on a draw, and the other person may be trying for s steal with pocket 9's or some crap, especially considering he has no money left. Be pissed off at me if you want, buy I came into the hand the best & came out the best. To hell with that 2 outer crap. Some guy with an Ace with a lousy kicker, up against some weird god knows flush/straight draw, against a pocket pair, don't threaten me when you get drawn out considering you were the idiot repeatedly pumping the pot preflop with an Ace Jack offsuit. Of course people are gonna chase.
This guy probably learned how to play on FSN watching Phil Gordon's commentary or something. 
1/11/06, Santa Fe Station Casino, Las Vegas NV, $4/$8 Half Kill with $1/$2 Blinds
sorry if I bored you with this thread, if I didn't, then discuss!
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Posted Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:18 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Well, if you cant beat a pair of aces with an ace on the board in a loose game with 6 people seeing the flop, I don't think you are ahead often.
That said, the pot is actually so big that you easily have the odds to peel off the turn card and fish for a third q after the flop, even if you have no backdoor draw. Pot odds are nearly there, so you only need a couple of big bets extracted if your Q hits to make it a valid call.
The turn call is more borderline....and I think you know that if you can't beat a pair of aces here, then the chances of being ahead in the hand are _extremely_ slim! And even if you get paid off well on the river, It is doubtful you will get the odds you need to draw for the river card.
That you 'drew out' on a hand which was the worse of your two hands preflop doesn't matter. QQ is better than AJ preflop. If an ace flops and no Q or other help comes along, then AJ is the now best hand. We can't justify calling because we had the best hand earlier!
In the end you won and all is gold. As for the argument, stuff like that has no place at a poker table.
*edit*
Let me disclaim that I may have misread the action here, it was a weird format to read.
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:51 pm GMT by Geno
$4 into a $98 pot on the turn fishing for one of the remaining Queens is ok in my book :D
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:09 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I thought it was a $6 bet.
I'm confused. 
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:12 pm GMT by Iron Butt
| Quote: | | asked for $40 in chips. |
Well there's where jerkass went wrong... bought in short, didn't have enough to play out his hand. You got to the river for $10, never had to call a full BB, that's about as good as it gets.
3 hands, double up, and out. Beautiful.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:53 am GMT by Cyberhwk
Wow...I'm suprised they handled it like they did.
Arguements happen, but as soon as someone's threatened, I don't know of a single place where that isn't an automatic boot and possible 86.
I was in the Golden Nugget in Vegas this last summer and a player got really upset about something. They let him fume and cuss at the floor guy, etc (casino employees are used to this stuff).
Then he said something similer, "I'm going to F-ing kick your ass." His mouth wasn't even closed until security had him by the arm and dragged him up to the poker cashier before booting him out on Freemont street.
It was pretty funny.
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:22 am GMT by raisebot
| Cyberhwk wrote: | Wow...I'm suprised they handled it like they did.
Arguements happen, but as soon as someone's threatened, I don't know of a single place where that isn't an automatic boot and possible 86.
I was in the Golden Nugget in Vegas this last summer and a player got really upset about something. They let him fume and cuss at the floor guy, etc (casino employees are used to this stuff).
Then he said something similer, "I'm going to F-ing kick your ass." His mouth wasn't even closed until security had him by the arm and dragged him up to the poker cashier before booting him out on Freemont street.
It was pretty funny. |
I work downtown, Binions, as a poker dealer so I pretty much know what you're talking about. But the situation differs depending on who is running floor, what shift it is, & how busy the room is.
Since the Nugget has a small room, if they were crowded, & there's a list for the games being run, then yes, its usually an automatic (likely temporary) 86. But look at the flip side. Say the room is dead. You have one table going, a single 4/8, with no list. They do NOT want the players to leave, as the more shorthanded the game becomes, the more likely the game is to break. Having a room go dark isn't the greatest situation for a floorperson to be in. They're getting no rake, dealers aren't making tips (the only reason us dealers are working in the first place!), and the image is just flat out bad. A player looking to get into a game, and entering a room with no games will undoutedly turn off that player to that particular cardroom.
All I'm saying is don't always expect an automatic 86, tournament time penalty, whatever, etc., floor is paid for making sure a room is running smoothly, getting a constant drop for the fatcats upstairs wearing the expensive suits, and that's not going to happen if you start kicking out players in the single game you're running.
Everyone's there to make money.
edit- I saw a couple of funny instances of people getting 86'd, one was a senior citizen, must have been about 75-80 years old, getting literally lifted out of his poker chair, cuffed, and brought away for who knows what type of violation. I've also seen a Heineken bottle broken over some guy's head in Mandalay Bay in their $200/buy in NL game, after a guy chased pocket deuces to the river, nailed a deuce on te river, & filled up beating someone holding AK that flopped 2 kings. The AK guy said nice hand to the deuceman, walked over like he was going to shake his hand, but instead swung his bottle of Heineken and broke it over the side of the Deucemans head. A lot of people take this "game", comprised of both skill & luck, just "a little" too seriously. I've gotten pissed at people with bad beats and bad calls that turned lucky, especially in NL, but never, EVER would I threaten someone.
Posted Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:37 pm GMT by General Sal
Another Vegas rounder... where ya been hiding kid?
Posted Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:49 am GMT by raisebot
I pissed the same guy off again tonight. :D
Same 4/8 HK $1/2 Blind game as mentioned above, this time shorthanded, 6 players, then 1 player took a break for a few minutes, basically only 5 players.
Seat #1 was the arrogant pissed off player I mentioned earlier, Seat #2 some 40/50 something gentleman, playing extremely tighter than everyone else, Seat #4 was some weak lady who will pretty much check & call, up to the river then call any sized bet on the river if she made any hand at all, the weird thig is she would call a raise & reraise on the flop & sometimes the turn, with absolutely nothing & no draws...  Seat #7 was some younger Asian guy, pretty solid player but called me down with heads up with me in early position, I raised UTG +1 preflop, board was all rags, a pair on the board by the river, he raised early on the flop, I check/raised on the turn, he calls, I bet the river he reluctantly folds, yet I was only holding Queen High, & showed him after he insisted I had a nice hand So I don't consider him too solid... lol...
Next hand I get pocket Jacks, I raise, I, a few people call. I bet $4 in the dark before the flop even hit. The flp was something like Ace Queen rag maybe even 2 suited & I had none to the flush... The arrogant player that hates me, acting right after me folded, the tight player called, & the lady called-I knew I was beat. I checked the rag turn, tight image guy checks, & the check/call lady actually bet. Well f.ck, just about anything beats me. I pretend to think about calling, the tight image guy folds out of turn, an I lay down my pocket Jacks, but I show them first. The Lady then showed me her AQ. I made the correct laydown, but the arrogant guy decided to prove otherwise or make me look like a dick once she showed her AQ. He starts "how does it feel? You're giving away your money (LOL, I gave away my $4 bet in the dark on the flop, so he only lost $4 less than me that hand, and regardless of betting I would have probably picked one off to see the turn, unless someone decided to raise the flop-which I might have prevented in betting "in the dark").. I told him it was amusing, that he feels so proud in losing $4 less than me 8)
Just as he's doing his little showboat routine, next hand I'm in the BB, and he immediately raises, makes it $6, 2 callers (the tight image guy and the call lady), I look down and see A10o. Criticize this shorthanded move if you wish, but I reraised & made it $10. He just calls, therefore there is no way in hell he has a large pocket pair. Maybe KQ or AJ at best. Reraising me back to narrow the playing field, and to represent a majorly powerful hand is way beyond this guy... The arrogane guy calls, tight image guy then folds and lady calls.
Flop is 10 6 5 rainbow. I'm first to act so I check, hoping to checkraise the flop to the arrogant guy and get into a betting war. He doesn't bite "I can't bet that., he declares, and the lady checks. Turn is another 5. I'm still thinking I have the best hand, and arrogant guy is probably going to try and steal that $30/something dollar pot, so I check. He bets! :D Lady calls $8, but before her money is even in the pot I raise and put in $16, to gauge their immediate reactions to my raise. Arrogant guy calls, and lady thinks about it and calls. River is a 8 I believe, I bet $8, arrogant guy calls, and as the lady is thinking about whether calling or not I tell the arrogant guy I have top pair top kicker, dealer tells me someone hasn't acted yet, I say its okay I only want his money  The lady folds, I show my A10, he mucks, and the pot is mine. The game then breaks, they say they have seats at the other table, & guess what? I left with the same guys money once more. The guy said don't leave, I told him "I took $50 here in 20 minutes. It's just not worth it listening to you". He STFU, went to his new seat, and that's all folks. Looks like I got this pricks' number & he's now gonna pay 
Posted Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:16 pm GMT by Cyberhwk
| No Limit wrote: | | dealers aren't making tips (the only reason us dealers are working in the first place!), |
Oh believe me man. I know... 
Posted Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:20 am GMT by Hungry4Knowledge
Trying to trap a guy thats pissed at you is about as fun as it gets :D
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