Posted Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:50 pm GMT by Geno
Four players left in a SnG, I pick up KK and make it 4xBB to go..........
PokerStars Game #3646046057: Tournament #18100781, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/01/15 - 14:47:06 (ET)
Table '18100781 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: SwampDonkey8 (4980 in chips)
Seat 2: Kennydg (4745 in chips)
Seat 4: GenoTHP (2876 in chips)
Seat 6: Cohnhead (899 in chips)
SwampDonkey8: posts the ante 25
Kennydg: posts the ante 25
GenoTHP: posts the ante 25
Cohnhead: posts the ante 25
Cohnhead: posts small blind 100
SwampDonkey8: posts big blind 200
SwampDonkey8 said, "kk"
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GenoTHP  
Kennydg: calls 200
GenoTHP: raises 600 to 800
Cohnhead: folds
SwampDonkey8: folds
Kennydg: calls 600
*** FLOP ***   
Kennydg: bets 600
GenoTHP: raises 1451 to 2051 and is all-in
Kennydg: calls 1451
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kennydg: shows   (two pair, Queens and Fours)
GenoTHP: shows (a pair of Kings)
Kennydg collected 6102 from pot
Ugly 
Cohnhead had only 899TC but I really couldn't play KK any other way here and avoid busting 4th could I? There's probably no mileage in raising more than 4xBB with KK at any stage of a SnG so I fail to see how I could have gotten away with this one.
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Posted Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:11 pm GMT by zeroswarm
Thats real annoying, busting out in 4th when theres a short stack on the table.
I'd probably have ended up the same way but sometimes I wonder whether it wouldn't be wiser to sit out for a few hands and let the short stack go out before resuming, if u know what I mean.
Posted Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:47 pm GMT by Geno
| zeroswarm wrote: | Thats real annoying, busting out in 4th when theres a short stack on the table.
I'd probably have ended up the same way but sometimes I wonder whether it wouldn't be wiser to sit out for a few hands and let the short stack go out before resuming, if u know what I mean. |
I know what you mean and trust me, I was folding hands that I probably shouldn't have up to that point but KK? Gotta play it
Posted Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:49 am GMT by screwthepooch
f*cking Q4 suited wants to call your 600 raise to 800???
God, I hate poker. I just don't understand that sort of call...and I never ever ever make it myself. So it pisses me off to no end that a f*cking donk would win with that.
My sympathies.
Last night I was in a $75 9-person on FTP. There were 5 of us left. Me with 1.3k the A-hole with about 4k. I get dealt 7,2 suited on the BB. No one calls except the SB who just calls.
Flop comes 7,2,Q... He checks, I check (maybe a bad decision, hard to know based on his turn decision).
Turn comes a Jack (7,2,Q,J) rainbow.
He checks and I go all-in.
He thinks a few seconds and then calls with A,K...only to river a 10 of course.
The problem here is that once you give a player a decent stack, they totally disrespect their chips and yours. I guess I should be grateful because these are the guys who will double me up late in a tourney and get me in the money.
ScrewThePooch
Posted Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:43 am GMT by UrAteUp
Oh man do I know both you guy's heartache and anger here. I played a micro-limit tournament this weekend while waiting on the wife to get ready to go. I got knocked out in 3rd place by a similar stupid move to what your donkey did Geno. Right ofter the tournament I caught up with the guy in the chat hub and talked about the hand.
If I use his explanation and put it to your hand Geno it would be something like this:
Ok everyone antes (100 total) then the blinds post (100+200=300). Now someone calls 200 bring the pot up to 600 preflop. Geno raises to 800 adding another 800 chips and bringing the pot up to 1400. If doink boy is playing pot odds then he sees he is getting about 2:1 pot odds thus he has to call with any two cards.
Not a good call if he would have figured his implied odds pre-flop but hey this is how some doinks play.
Posted Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:42 pm GMT by Johny
| UrAteUp wrote: | Oh man do I know both you guy's heartache and anger here. I played a micro-limit tournament this weekend while waiting on the wife to get ready to go. I got knocked out in 3rd place by a similar stupid move to what your donkey did Geno. Right ofter the tournament I caught up with the guy in the chat hub and talked about the hand.
If I use his explanation and put it to your hand Geno it would be something like this:
Ok everyone antes (100 total) then the blinds post (100+200=300). Now someone calls 200 bring the pot up to 600 preflop. Geno raises to 800 adding another 800 chips and bringing the pot up to 1400. If doink boy is playing pot odds then he sees he is getting about 2:1 pot odds thus he has to call with any two cards.
Not a good call if he would have figured his implied odds pre-flop but hey this is how some doinks play. |
Getting 2-1 pot odds does not justify a call with any two cards, not even close. Following that reasonning you'd be playing a ton of hands, because it's common to be getting 2-1 on your money pre-flop. I would say getting at least 5-1 would warrant playing any two cards. Surprising that the donk was wrong. 
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:08 am GMT by Jauron
Feel your pain, and that was boneheaded to smooth call the raise out of position by him unless his read was way off, however, when a player smooth calls UTG like that I usually like to step on the pot a little harder preflop, too many idiots like to hang around thinking they can't fold. I usually like to explain via a bet they can. Flat calling early although a sign of strength is usually to me online a sign of some dumb ass wanting to see a flop with cards that don't warrent it, in this case you aren't folding if he makes a move on you, which is another reason I like to be more aggresive than normal.
Even worse (unless you were trying to get callers so as not to "waste" kings), if the SB calls you surely will get 3 if not 4 to the flop which is a death wish to a short stack who isn't crippled yet. Short handed with a powerful hand and one player before me calling, I rarely will raise so little for all of these reasons, I don't respect the players enough to trust them to fold.
Even if you had raised more, lets say he calls, you still go broke, doesn't matter if he's even half the idiot he looks to be. Sometimes the only way you can win is by accidently folding a hand.
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:09 am GMT by UrAteUp
| Johny4444 wrote: | | UrAteUp wrote: | Oh man do I know both you guy's heartache and anger here. I played a micro-limit tournament this weekend while waiting on the wife to get ready to go. I got knocked out in 3rd place by a similar stupid move to what your donkey did Geno. Right ofter the tournament I caught up with the guy in the chat hub and talked about the hand.
If I use his explanation and put it to your hand Geno it would be something like this:
Ok everyone antes (100 total) then the blinds post (100+200=300). Now someone calls 200 bring the pot up to 600 preflop. Geno raises to 800 adding another 800 chips and bringing the pot up to 1400. If doink boy is playing pot odds then he sees he is getting about 2:1 pot odds thus he has to call with any two cards.
Not a good call if he would have figured his implied odds pre-flop but hey this is how some doinks play. |
Getting 2-1 pot odds does not justify a call with any two cards, not even close. Following that reasonning you'd be playing a ton of hands, because it's common to be getting 2-1 on your money pre-flop. I would say getting at least 5-1 would warrant playing any two cards. Surprising that the donk was wrong. |
I know and you know Donkboy was wrong here Johnny but that is exactly how he explained it when he did about the same thing that Geno's donk did to him. That is one reason I added this dude to my buddy list and will make it a point of looking for him.
I keep a whole list of people at different buy-in levels that are good chip sources.... :D
Posted Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:12 pm GMT by truplaya_177
it just seems to me you got outplayed and you couldn't get away from your hand. I think it was about a 50/50 decision and you should take more time to make this VERY important decision(maybe you did i dont know) seeing your on the bubble and someone is very short stacked and you coulld probably outlast him and try and make your moves down the road to build your stack up.
Posted Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:31 pm GMT by Phil14312
| truplaya_177 wrote: | | it just seems to me you got outplayed and you couldn't get away from your hand. I think it was about a 50/50 decision and you should take more time to make this VERY important decision(maybe you did i dont know) seeing your on the bubble and someone is very short stacked and you coulld probably outlast him and try and make your moves down the road to build your stack up. |
If you fold your kings in this spot with those blinds on that flop. You are leaving money on the table. And who doesn't like money?
Posted Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:07 pm GMT by Geno
| truplaya_177 wrote: | | it just seems to me you got outplayed and you couldn't get away from your hand. |
With all due respect, you are wrong. He got lucky. There's no way I fold Kings there unless I am the weakest bitch of a player going. It never even crossed my mind to do anything other than raise the Kings despite the short stack and the day it makes me stop and think is the day I quit playing poker.
Posted Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:28 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Geno's opponent put 800 chips in when he was a 15% favourite to win. Then he won 2000 chips when he was ahead.
That isn't called outplaying anyone, that is called being lucky. And its called playing a losing game _even_ if you win. If you can't understand why, learn why, it is very important poker knowledge.
We can argue that he may have had a bigger equity versus a total handrange, but I doubt the stacks are deep enough to justify the play...and even if they were...you would actually need your op to have a hand that pays you off the amount you need to justify the preflop call...bah...I won't even bother to discussing this further...its a horrible, horrible, horrible play.
Not to mention he actually limped. Disgusting.
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