Posted Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:14 pm GMT by Wada
Ok I know this might seem ridiculous to some of you but to some it might not. I know theres a few of you out there that have to have the same problem that I do.
For some reason I have a hard time seeing the straight over anything else. My question is do any of you guys have any suggestions to help me make it easier to see the possible straights whether it be an open ended or gut shot..etc..
For instance, I was in an online poker room just watching the people play to practice my "reading the board" skills and try and guess who has what pocket cards.
The flop was - K 7 5
The turn was - 9
The river was - Q
Now after the river I was thinking that the highest hand was the K high straight - where a player could be holding J 10. I was trying to guess what the last two remaining players were holding. I didnt even see the 9 high straight - player holding 6 8. Which the winner was holding.
Before the river I did not even think of that 9 high straight. I was thinking highest hand being trip K's, any trips and then two pair. Did not see that straight! Must be slow or not paying attention.
This isnt the first time Ive missed reading a straight. Geezz even sometimes I have to sit there and look at my hand a second time to see what draw I need to make a straight. Call me slow or mathematically challenged - either way any advice on how to improve seeing the straight faster or to where it smacks me over the head?
Thanks
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Posted Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:32 pm GMT by UnluckyKyle
straits like that are very hard to detect, mostly because you wouldnt normally see a hand like that played before the flop. I'm guessing that either;
1. no one raised before the flop
or
2. that player is new
or
3. they were suited - and in the blinds
even then a 6-8 suited is not a hand that i would typically play (unless in the blinds).
The thing with the J-T straight is if there were any raises after the flop, they would have been long gone (had the raises been significant if playing NL). So i would not have put a player on that hand mostly b/c it is a longshot for that person to stay in.
Posted Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:51 pm GMT by Wada
Im guessing this comes with large amounts of playing time under ones belt? i.e. Experience
Posted Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:06 am GMT by thecadman
I think the only way to catch these str8 draws is to know the player and their willingness to do such a chase. You can't do this online most of the time so you need to minimize your loss.
I was having a major problem with this so instead of trying to catch them I simply control the betting now. I found small or even medium preflop raises quite worthless online because it has taken on the meaning of "I'm bluffing" and everyone stays in anyway thinking you won't hit the flop. Larger preflop raises are insane online unless you are an S&M fan.
If I hit the flop and have a good hand, but see an obvious potential str8 on the board I limp my way to the river instead of betting big. Limps will get some respect and might take a few players out of the running. If you check you might as well kiss your pre-flop goodbye because you allow everyone to stay in for free of course. The limp gives the str8 chaser a warning, but allows them to still chase their precious str8. They would probably follow any bet and that's why you might as well get in cheap while still making some kind of statement. If the str8 hits they will most likely limp again allowing you a cheap call because you had been betting the entire time or if they do bet huge you can safely get out with minimal loss. In either case you minimized your loss and there is always another hand. If you can clearly see their str8 had no chance after the river card you can come over the top of anything they bet and nail em.
This pretty much applies to flush draws for me also which are just as bad as them str8's are.
I had the wrong attitude of betting bigger is better, but I've found being greedy online is no way to win and your butt is handed to you 80% of the time. No idea how to apply to this to B&M games though, haven't played at any. I suspect it's similiar.
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:09 pm GMT by Saso8910
I feel that depending on limits, achieving straights are more probable with some games more than others. I look at it this way- All Based On Hold'em:
Regardless of limit- Broadway is achieved a lot with both inside and connected hole cards. (ie Hole cards: Q/K or J/A)
Lower Limit: I see both acheived again- but its usually when players have not-connected cards, but suited. (ie Hole cards: A/3 hearts and 5/7 spades)
Higher Limit: We all know about broadway- so, just about anytime a player gets a low numbered straight in a higher limit game it's because they played a suited connector- 5/6 Hearts. And that person is usually in a blind or has great position.
So, when a flop comes 10/J/A- your always shit out of luck. But, in a lower limit game a flop comes 5/7/K- be more aware of the turn and river card. Higher Limit, you should watch out for flops 5/6/7- its more improbably for players to play suited connectors in these games, but always keep your eyes on the blinds and button for strong moves.
Posted Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:48 pm GMT by DocHolliday
Straights are usually hard to detect because you really have to know the players. I'll relate this hand as a warning to be careful. I was playing recently in a small no-limit game (each chip worth 3 cents and blinds were 5/10 chips). I was catching a good run of cards, so no one was calling me in the later betting rounds. So I was dealt 56o on the button and it came to me with a preflop raise to 20. I re-raised to 30, either trying to steal the blinds or get caught bluffing to entice later callers. Flop comes 34K. I have an open-ended str8 draw and bet 50. Only one other player calls. Turn comes 7. I bet 300, other player calls. River comes blank. Other player bets 200, I raise to 500, he raises all-in with about 2000, and I immediately call. He had K7, making him 2-pair. So, with my lowly 56o to begin with, I got the best of both worlds. I showed my 56 and I won the hand with a straight. The other guy said that he would have never imagined that I would have made that hand. Needless to say, I accomplished my goal of getting a lot more calls in later hands! Of course, had I not hit any kind of hand, I would have simply folded and I would have only lost a few chips early, but I would have shown my 56o when I did fold. Luckily I was on the winning side of that hand, but I've been beaten the same way so many times online, I'm not even close to breaking even there.
Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:07 pm GMT by CamBam
Here's how I read the board on possible hands w/o the betting influence which I think you are asking.
With a flop of K, 7, 5 you are right trips is hi hand
With turn of 9.....hi hand becomes the 9 hi straight you didn't read
How do you know right away? Take the 5 and add 4 =9, If there are three cards on the board (in this case the 3rd card is the 7) between the 5 rank values you have a potential straight w/ the pocket cards.
Likewise, with this turn card you don't have a J-hi straight because there aren't 3 cards on the board between 7 (+4) = 11(J)...the 7, 9 is there but not the J....and there are only 2 pocket cards so the straight isn't there...if the J came up on river you would have the potential
Then the k came up on river and you have 9 (+4) =13(K) and that's the k-hi straight you read.
The above shows how to quickly read the potential straights...the other guys are right that the betting pattern will give you a clue as to whether this potential is reality and someone is holding the requisite pocket cards.
For more on this check out Ken Warren's book (I forget the title) It has a whole chapter where the exercise is to ID the top 4 hands that any flop contains.....great way of knowing whether you have the nuts or close too....who cares what pot odds are if your holding 5th best hand on the flop....unless you are in the loose/agressive playing gear (OVERDRIVE!!!!)
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