How deep before you fold? |
|
Posted Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:03 pm GMT by tame_deuces
You are holding 7  7 
Villain raises 4x from UTG. You call from the button. Everyone else folds.
Flop comes 7  J Q 
Villain bets the pot, You call
Turn comes 2
Villain bets pot, you raise the same, villain pushes.
How deep stacks does it take for you too fold your hand, if at all?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:39 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
of course this will come w/ the usual questions like:
How many ppl?...wut has everybody been acting like?...ring game or tourney?....if yer gonna get houses/cars involved...are the big blinds measured in pennies or c-notes?
assuming I havent gone off the deep end and have my first born in the prize pool....and not counting other factors...i'm not folding...only two hands beat you and the donks can have their 9% gutshot, thats fine
Posted Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:48 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I was generally thinking about a full ring game, cash not tourney.
Nothing out of line on villain up untill this hand. Stakes will ofcourse have to be some kind of stakes people can relate too.
Posted Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:02 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
it mite help ppl to see how many blinds are in the pot
9.5 preflop
+ 19 on the flop
+ 114 on the turn
= 152 BBs in the pot....yikes!
alrite, maybe i'd fold to an additional 600BBs but that is a pretty ridiculous theoretical situation...who's sitting at a table w/ that much?...heh...and thats just cuz i'm giving him a better than 1 in 8 chance of having hooks or queens...i'd figure 2 pair or maybe AQ to be more likely and he/she is trying to get me off the pot by overbetting like a freak
Posted Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:32 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Yeah, maybe abit 'theoretical' in nature this one. But deep stacks games do exist, but I guess I'm just curious if people have a 'limit' to how far they'll go.
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:34 am GMT by gumbie
I call every time and lose 80% of the time here.
I need to work on my game.........
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:41 pm GMT by AHBrownell
I think I would call every time here for 4 reasons.
1) Villian is holding AK or two random cards and is bluffing or semi-bluffing.
2) Villian is holding AQ and is playing it like a donk.
3) Villian is holding AA or KK and is playing it decently - AA or KK to Q high board looks strong to me. 
4) Villian is holding JJ or QQ and you fuxed.
If you are unlucky and you hit into JJ or QQ there you shrug and move on. I will say its unlikely that QQ or JJ bets the pot sized bet on the flop - I would expect some kind of slowplaying - even if its to bet 1/2 or 2/3 the pot. Most of the time you are going to be up against AA, KK, AQ - and they are drawing nearly dead.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:50 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Only problem is ofcourse your opponent. What does he put you on, on this board?
I know the original question doesn't include opponent skill level, but still...its something to think about.
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:14 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
AA, KK, AQ, or QJ probably. I doubt most people would bet the pot on the flop if they flopped top or middle set.
Posted Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:24 pm GMT by Hungry4Knowledge
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | AA, KK, AQ, or QJ probably. I doubt most people would bet the pot on the flop if they flopped top or middle set. |
I agree.... Unless he was playing a set agresively to disguise it? Or he was afraid of giving a free card to a A-10, A-K who might draw for a straight? Its so hard when you havent seen the player earlyer 
I would say: call any bet. I never lay down a set when there isnt a straigh ot flush or something else scary possible on the board, or some other crazy scenario. And what if he does got queens or Jacks, you still got like, 1 to 44 in hitting the last 7 in the deck
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:45 am GMT by tame_deuces
If stacks go deep, a potbet on the flop when HU means nothing. Slowplaying with deep stacks is also pretty pointless.
And I almost never bet differently based on what I hold in my hand, and since this is a hypothetical situation, it is coloured by my own playstyle.
But against a tight player this is not an 'easy' call with stacks of 500+ BBs. AA and KK doesn't beat much on this board with the action we've seen, and if our opponent is good he shouldn't be pushing those two hands unless he thinks we're falling in love with top pair, and no good deep stack players fall in love with top pair. Other than that, he would just be shutting out bluffs and losing value.
We're also repping a very solid hand, at minimum two pair and villain is not slowing down. Against a solid, tight player I wouldn't expect to win often with bottom set here when deep. If this makes it a good fold...I dunno...it is pretty weak...and it might be a losing play in the long run to start making FPS folds.
Still, I find it interesting. The bottomline is that when playing deep you will have to find folds were you haven't found them before. Laying down a set on a non-flush, non-straight board is also one of the toughest laydowns in hold'em. A discussion of it will ever be profitable to do so is pretty interesting in my book.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 9:46 am GMT by shorn7
I think this is mostly read dependent. How well do you know this player? How have you seen him play overpairs and sets before? How has he seen you play a set?
Doyle is fond of saying it is almost impossible to release a set in a raised pot. There are just too many players out there who will overplay overpairs as well as draws that it is generally a -EV play to fold. That being said, there are a few very rocky players out there to whom I might lay this down. But most of the time, I am calling and he needs to show me QQ or JJ here.
I guess the bottom line for me is that if you are going to make a habit of folding this hand, then you shouldn;t play deep stack NL. I agree that the very best players "have to find tough folds" to be hugely successful, but I don't think this case qualifies.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 10:05 am GMT by BeerWench13
I'd call. You really haven't mentioned villain's stack size in relation to the hero's or how much is already in the pot, but I still make the call here. At worst, it's set over set and I have 1 out. However, based on the betting thus far, I would say villain has AA, KK, AK or AQ. I woulnd't hesitate.
|
|
