Stars $50NL Street by Street |
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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:03 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I like these threads, and I have one that I'm interested in getting opinions. Table is loose, a little passive and, yes, that's our very own zinn0 in the 3 seat. So he's disqualified from commenting till the end. 
PokerStars Game #3954925860: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/02/12 - 22:21:18 (ET)
Table 'Alkeste V' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 2: OrlandoTwo4 ($11 in chips)
Seat 3: zinn0 ($74.90 in chips)
Seat 4: NoBogey ($21.75 in chips)
Seat 5: DrunkenMonke ($12 in chips)
Seat 6: SeanNJ ($62.10 in chips)
Seat 7: wildogg2k5 ($98.55 in chips)
Seat 8: WRChamp ($55.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Kapi ($77.35 in chips)
WRChamp: posts small blind $0.25
Kapi: posts big blind $0.50
LabLuvva: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SeanNJ 2 A
OrlandoTwo4: folds
zinn0: calls $0.50
NoBogey: folds
DrunkenMonke: folds
SeanNJ: calls $0.50
wildogg2k5: calls $0.50
WRChamp: folds
Kapi: raises $1.50 to $2
zinn0: calls $1.50
SeanNJ: calls $1.50
wildogg2k5: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** 6 2 2
Kapi: bets $3.50
zinn0: folds
SeanNJ: ???
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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:13 pm GMT by Ciso_B
call.
Side note, u give me beef for being the agressor with a hand that is prolly live whereas here you call (weak) with a ragged Ace. You crack me up lol.
but yeah call , let him bet into you if he wishes cos theres no way hes ahead imo.
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:17 pm GMT by CodeNull
not really ragged, but that is beside the point, I do agree with just calling here, maybe after a bit of a hollywooding pause. or, possibly min raising, depending on the table, see if he wants to hang himself on that flop, or if he is making a stab without a hand, if he is, depending on what he raised with, he will either call and checkfold, or reraise big (AA, KK)
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:17 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Ciso_B wrote: | | Side note, u give me beef for being the agressor with a hand that is prolly live whereas here you call (weak) with a ragged Ace. You crack me up lol. |
This is a cash game. I can rebuy.
I've also seen more than 30 hands with these players, so I have a slightly better idea what I can get away with and what I can't.
Now, if I had whiffed the flop, and reraised him trying to "represent" something, you have a valid point.
Am I gonna have to put up with you in all of my threads now?
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:20 pm GMT by Ciso_B
no and i apologise calling station.
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:29 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
I raise here, maybe just to $7. The standard play would be to call and hope he bets again on the Turn, but just calling here is kind of obvious that flop hit you in some way. If you just had overcards, you shouldn't just call that flop bet...you should either fold or raise it to try and take it down right there, so you might be masking your hand for overcards.
Basically, I think that if you raise and he folds, I don't think you would have gotten much more money out of him anyways. There is a chance, however, that he has a high PP and will be willing to go the distance with them.
Just my $.02.
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:36 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Ciso,
You and all the other names you post under really need to learn a lot about basic poker theory type stuff. There's a huge difference between a cash game that's 100BB deep and a tourney that's 20-30BB deep. If you don't understand this you really shouldn't be posting in the advanced theory and hand analysis section.
I vote for a min raise.
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:39 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I chose to call with one player left to act behind.
*** FLOP *** 6 2 2 Pot=$8.25
Kapi: bets $3.50
zinn0: folds
SeanNJ: calls $3.50
wildogg2k5: folds
*** TURN *** 6 2 2 A Pot=$15.25
Kapi: bets $4
SeanNJ: ???
*edit* I added the size of the pot. *edit*
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:45 pm GMT by Ciso_B
ok thats fair enough. But i only post as me ok? There is no other aliases ok? And i know there is a difference btw.,
Posted Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:52 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | I chose to call with one player left to act behind.
*** FLOP *** 6 2 2
Kapi: bets $3.50
zinn0: folds
SeanNJ: calls $3.50
wildogg2k5: folds
*** TURN *** 6 2 2 A
Kapi: bets $4
SeanNJ: ??? |
Interesting...he is slowing down with the size of hits bets (this bet gives you almost 4-to-1). This could either be a bet for value or a scared bet just hoping you would fold here. If it is a bet for value, you might even be behind here (to AA maybe).
I raise it $12.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:12 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I did raise the turn, but I only doubled the bet. I was hoping that he had raised with AK or AQ, made a continuation bet on the flop and now caught his pair. He only calls the min-raise however...
*** TURN *** 6 2 2 A Pot=$15.25
Kapi: bets $4
SeanNJ: raises $4 to $8
Kapi: calls $4
*** RIVER *** 6 2 2 A 2 Pot=$31.25
Kapi: checks
SeanNJ: ???
With quads, what is my optimal bet?
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:46 am GMT by Skribbles
I think you can get away with a large bet here. Assuming that he has an ace he is calling any bet.
I would lay down the theatrics and then toss out about $20. He won't put you on the quads and he *shouldn't* be calling any bet without an ace.
Other line I could see is tossing out a $5-10 bet and hoping he re-raises.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:03 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I led out for ~1/3 pot, and IMO was fortunate to get a call.
*** RIVER *** 6 2 2 A 2 Pot=$31.25
Kapi: checks
SeanNJ: bets $9
Kapi: calls $9
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SeanNJ: shows 2 A (four of a kind, Deuces)
Kapi: mucks hand
SeanNJ collected $46.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $49.25 | Rake $2.35
<snipsnip>
Seat 9: Kapi (big blind) mucked K K
The whole reason I posted this is because I think my best line, given villain's hand, would've been to raise the flop instead of waiting for the turn. At the time, I thought the A was the perfect card for me, when in fact it killed my action. The flop is the only street I could've stacked him off.
The full hand
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:55 am GMT by TheSalche
take note: seat 3 is weak tight
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:25 am GMT by Phil14312
Yeah, I, if villain has an overpair, raising the flop is better. But, if they have AK/AQ, then waiting for the turn is optimal. Without any more information, I probably min-raise the flop because you stand to win a lot more I think against KK than against say AK or AQ when an ace hits.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:25 am GMT by zinn0
| TheSalche wrote: | | take note: seat 3 is weak tight |
Actually, last night I was a little loose agressive...
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:41 am GMT by supafrey
min raising will kill your action here.
I'd prefer to do it withOUT a deuce than i would with one.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:06 am GMT by tame_deuces
| supafrey wrote: | min raising will kill your action here.
I'd prefer to do it withOUT a deuce than i would with one. |
Yeah...but calling can be pretty transparant too. A raise can give the impression of 77+. And it bloats the pot. Which is good.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:09 am GMT by Dat_Dude
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: |
The whole reason I posted this is because I think my best line, given villain's hand, would've been to raise the flop instead of waiting for the turn. At the time, I thought the A was the perfect card for me, when in fact it killed my action. The flop is the only street I could've stacked him off.
The full hand |
Hindsight is 20/20, but if you min-raised on that flop, Villain may have been willing to risk his whole stack because, unless you had pocket 6's or 2's, he may ask himself "why would you call that preflop bet?"
Still a decent pot and you got him to call that $9 river bet.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:33 am GMT by tame_deuces
You don't need hindsight really, you just need some things to click into place.
I think it isn't too hard. The bigger the chance of your opponent actually having a hand, the better it is to raise. The size of the raise should be one that makes it more likely for him to pump more money into the pot.
The lesser the chance your opponent has a hand and the more aggressive he is, the better it is to call and see if he fires the turn.
This isn't especially dangerous on an uncoordinated flop like this one.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:00 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
The more I think about it, the more I like calling the flop. The ideal card for me on the turn isn't an A (and it sure isn't a K), it's the case 2 followed by any other small card. It seems to me that in general, against an average opponent, there are more cards that can come to trap an opponent than those that give him an easier exit.
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