Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:08 am GMT by Leafs42084
This weekend I was playing in a NL texas tournament. And it was about 5-6 handed and this is what went down.
My friend had A  4 
Other guy had J  J
Other guy raises a decent amount preflop, everyone folds except my friend. Theres random betting after flop/turn, dont remember and its not that important.
The community looks like this.
9 6  9 6 2
My friend goes All In, the other guy calls.
My friend shows his Ace and says "if you got the 6 or 9, youre good"
The other guy for some reason throws his cards down and gets up and walks to the couch. My being the curious cat that I am ask to see the cards since it went to a showdown. And someone turns over his cards which end up being JJ
The pot was awarded to my friend since the other guy mucked his hands. However ive been thinking and I think the other guy should have taken the pot. He didnt say "Fold" and his hole cards never touched the muck pile, he just put them face down in front of him
Can anyone tell me who should win the pot?
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Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:14 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Leafs42084 wrote: | | Can anyone tell me who should win the pot? |
Hard to say, since he left the table. But if the cards didn't hit the muck, they speak.
I'd have been inclined to call him back and give him the pot.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:16 am GMT by Phil14312
Well, thats kind of a grey area. It all comes down to whether you judged he folded or not. To me, without being there, it sounds like he folded. I mean, who sees the opponents cards, knows he has a winner, and puts his cards face down and walks away? I vote for he folded.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:20 am GMT by Phil14312
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | Leafs42084 wrote: | | Can anyone tell me who should win the pot? |
Hard to say, since he left the table. But if the cards didn't hit the muck, they speak.
I'd have been inclined to call him back and give him the pot. |
The problem is that cards that are face down don't speak. I guess if you tell him he won that could happen, but that other guy might be pretty pissed at you.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:26 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Phil14312 wrote: | | The problem is that cards that are face down don't speak. |
But it was requested that they be shown, and as long as they didn't hit the muck, that hand should still be OK.
The bigger question is whether his leaving the table forfeits the pot. In a casino, it certainly would. In a home game, that's iffy. I'd probably be fine with it either way.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:30 am GMT by Leafs42084
by leave, I dont mean he like left... the couch he walked to was maybe 3-4 metres away and he didnt even have a chance to sit down or anything, because I asked almost immediately
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:32 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Leafs42084 wrote: | | by leave, I dont mean he like left... the couch he walked to was maybe 3-4 metres away and he didnt even have a chance to sit down or anything, because I asked almost immediately |
But he clearly had no intention of coming back, right?
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:39 am GMT by Leafs42084
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | Leafs42084 wrote: | | by leave, I dont mean he like left... the couch he walked to was maybe 3-4 metres away and he didnt even have a chance to sit down or anything, because I asked almost immediately |
But he clearly had no intention of coming back, right? |
hmmm, I would say yes,
however, when he saw what happened he claimed that someone called his name so he walked over there. But the way he put down his cards, it wasnt a "i'll be right back", it looked like a fold. And who leaves the table cause someone calls your name? its 5 handed and youre heads up and at a showdown right?
I know his intention was to fold, but I was curious on the actual rules and what should happen. I tried looking at online rules and stuff but I cant seem to find anything for this exact scenario since its so rare
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:14 am GMT by JohnnyCache
Well maybe technically he had the cards to take the pot, but I am inclined to say if he wanted it that bad, he should have shown down his cards and not got up to fiddle-flap around.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:18 am GMT by zinn0
| JohnnyCache wrote: | | Well maybe technically he had the cards to take the pot, but I am inclined to say if he wanted it that bad, he should have shown down his cards and not got up to fiddle-flap around. |
I'm with JC. I can't figure out why he didn't show???
It sounds like the guy doesn't know a lot about poker...
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:17 am GMT by Johny
It's a home game, I say give him the pot. He obviously isn't a very experience player and in home games you can bend the rules.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:05 am GMT by golddog
| Johny4444 wrote: | | It's a home game, I say give him the pot. He obviously isn't a very experience player and in home games you can bend the rules. |
Unfortunately, the reality probably is that this wasn't defined at the start of play. That's the key thing everyone should take away from this; have the rules clearly defined before the start, and when an unusual situation comes up, update the rules if necessary.
However, to say we should "bend the rules" means that we should give the guy with four clubs and a spade the pot because he's not experienced and misread his hand for a flush.
That's actually what rules do, is define the game.
The way it was described, it sounds like a pretty clear fold. Throwing your hand face-down in the direction of the dealer or muck is a pretty clear fold.
I bet he won't make that mistake again. Sometimes gaining experience hurts. We've all done it (or something equally dumb).
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:22 pm GMT by Miss_J
regardless of wether you let him take the pot. you should definitely let him know that his jacks are good.
did that other player seriously think that only a 6 or a 9 had hime beat? you should also make sure he is aware of spectrum of possible hands could have beat him at that point....
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:50 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Miss_J wrote: | regardless of wether you let him take the pot. you should definitely let him know that his jacks are good.
did that other player seriously think that only a 6 or a 9 had hime beat? you should also make sure he is aware of spectrum of possible hands could have beat him at that point.... |
Yeah, this is good stuff. I don't know if its exactly what you meant, but if you tell someone they had the best hand but their action folded the hand...then they won't do that again. Harsh learning but personally I prefer that to babysitting new players and their cards.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:41 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Harsh learning but personally I prefer that to babysitting new players and their cards. |
Agreed. New players need to learn to physically see two cards that beat them before they toss their hand, much less get up and leave the table. No matter what any other player says he has, for they could be mistaken themselves.
Posted Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:55 pm GMT by Skribbles
I'd say it all depends on the seriousness of the game.
The home tournys I play in are as much of a social gathering as they are poker. There are some seasoned vets and some who have never played the game. The first hour of our games have very low blinds so you can play lots of hands and learn the game for the rookies. We are also very helpful to the rookies when they make mistakes or mis-read hands.
The action doesn't turn serious until the final table.
Edit: I would give the JJ the pot.
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