Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:16 am GMT by Geno
Is this widespread? I knew it went on but I have a feeling it is everywhere in the pro game you just rarely here about it...........
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Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:54 pm GMT by age_of_sages
Please define what proposition betting is for those of us that are ignorant and uninformed.
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:16 pm GMT by Geno
| age_of_sages wrote: | | Please define what proposition betting is for those of us that are ignorant and uninformed. |
Just making a side bet with someone else for silly stuff like "one of the next 5 flops will be a 3 card straight" or "the next flop will be all one colour". Very much like the side betting at Party Poker basically.
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:27 pm GMT by JackKingOff
Geno | Quote: | | Just making a side bet with someone else for silly stuff like "one of the next 5 flops will be a 3 card straight" or "the next flop will be all one colour". Very much like the side betting at Party Poker basically. |
what side betting is there on PP? i play on PS 
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:28 pm GMT by age_of_sages
Ah k, I figured as much but just wanted to be sure. U'm sure it goes on quite often, though I can't say I've ever seen it in my limited experience, I for one, do not place such bets unless it's decidedly in my favour.
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:29 pm GMT by JackKingOff
ok and how do quote someone properly?
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:30 pm GMT by JackKingOff
| Geno wrote: |
Just making a side bet with someone else for silly stuff like "one of the next 5 flops will be a 3 card straight" or "the next flop will be all one colour". Very much like the side betting at Party Poker basically. |
what side betting is there on PP?
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:40 pm GMT by Geno
| JackKingOff wrote: | | Geno wrote: |
Just making a side bet with someone else for silly stuff like "one of the next 5 flops will be a 3 card straight" or "the next flop will be all one colour". Very much like the side betting at Party Poker basically. |
what side betting is there on PP? |
There is a tall thin button on the left hand side of cash game tables (might be at other ones too, I am not sure) that says 'side bet'. If you click it, you can choose to bet whether the next flop will be all red or all black. I guess the cynics among us could say that this may be rigged such that if a whole table were to bet $5 on it being red, there's no way they'd allow a red flop out but I hope that is not the case!
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:17 pm GMT by Ciso_B
I dont like that feature tbh, if it happens in real life i havent really heard of it in the games i played. But I dont like it on the "virtual" poker table, just like blackjack is on some sites cash tables too.
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:04 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Geno wrote: | | JackKingOff wrote: | | Geno wrote: |
Just making a side bet with someone else for silly stuff like "one of the next 5 flops will be a 3 card straight" or "the next flop will be all one colour". Very much like the side betting at Party Poker basically. |
what side betting is there on PP? |
There is a tall thin button on the left hand side of cash game tables (might be at other ones too, I am not sure) that says 'side bet'. If you click it, you can choose to bet whether the next flop will be all red or all black. I guess the cynics among us could say that this may be rigged such that if a whole table were to bet $5 on it being red, there's no way they'd allow a red flop out but I hope that is not the case! |
So if I hold A  K , and bet on a black flop it will come all diamonds? 
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:18 pm GMT by Geno
| tame_deuces wrote: | | So if I hold A K , and bet on a black flop it will come all diamonds? |
Yeah, though you'd probably have to fold to a bet 
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:24 pm GMT by Diamonddave
I was just watching an old wsop where with 4 or 5 people left (may have been 1973) Johnny Moss called an all in after the flop and was up against a flush draw. He stopped the game and called Jack Binion over to get odds, and action, on a side bet that the guy would make his flush. There was some discussion on it and then Puggy Pearson chimed in and finally they decided something, but the whole scene took like 7-8 minutes to unfold and everyone was just waiting to play. It was amusing.
P.S. Moss did win the hand (and lost the prop)
Posted Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:51 pm GMT by groton
yah
those Real Old WSOP with Jack must of been supergreat to play in.
Posted Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:52 pm GMT by General Sal
| Geno wrote: | | Is this widespread? I knew it went on but I have a feeling it is everywhere in the pro game you just rarely here about it........... |
They say it actually goes on in the big game quite a bit... there are other prop bets people can take between each other though that do not involve cards. Even the "last longer" bet in a tournament is a prop bet. The classic one is the two of these people in this room of 30 people actually have the same birthday.
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:57 am GMT by Geno
| General Sal wrote: | | The classic one is the two of these people in this room of 30 people actually have the same birthday. |
I'd take that bet every time!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox
"The birthday "paradox" states that if there are 23 or more people in a room then there is a chance of more than 50% that at least two of them will have the same birthday. This means that in a typically-sized school class where the 'paradox' is often cited, an even higher probability often applies. For 60 or more people, the probability is already greater than 99%.........."
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:47 pm GMT by BMiller1980
| Geno wrote: | | General Sal wrote: | | The classic one is the two of these people in this room of 30 people actually have the same birthday. |
I'd take that bet every time!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox
"The birthday "paradox" states that if there are 23 or more people in a room then there is a chance of more than 50% that at least two of them will have the same birthday. This means that in a typically-sized school class where the 'paradox' is often cited, an even higher probability often applies. For 60 or more people, the probability is already greater than 99%.........." |
Ummmmmmmmm for some reason that just doesn't make sense to me.
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:53 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
I see last longer bets fairly often...it used to happen more when my friends and I were more n00b-like to poker
i've never seen anybody do any side bets like 'next flop will be suited at 3 to 1' or anything like that
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:23 pm GMT by Iron Butt
There's a couple good posts about prop betting on Daniel Negraneau's (sp?) blog. Crazy stuff.
I'd post links but it's on a commercial site... just find DN's blog and search for props I guess.
The trick about the birthday problem is that since any 2 people having the same birthday fulfills the condition, it's the total number of chances for all the people that count.
For instance with 30 people, there's 29 chances your birthday matches someone, plus 28 for the next guy with the remaining people, + 27 etc. which adds up pretty quick. As the total number of chances approaches 365 which is around 27 people it pretty much gets to be a lock. By this method you actually get into +EV territory for an even money bet at 20 people. Of course 23 would be much better.
That's the way I heard it anyway... the undoubtably more qualified wiki people seem to think it's much more complicated. Maybe one of our mathy types can explain the finer points?
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:31 am GMT by Cyberhwk
| Iron Butt wrote: |
For instance with 30 people, there's 29 chances your birthday matches someone, plus 28 for the next guy with the remaining people, + 27 etc. which adds up pretty quick. As the total number of chances approaches 365 which is around 27 people it pretty much gets to be a lock. By this method you actually get into +EV territory for an even money bet at 20 people. Of course 23 would be much better. |
Not sure if that's a valid explination, but if it is it's the best and most simple I've seen so far. It is pretty counter intuitive isn't it. 
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:06 pm GMT by Iron Butt
| Cyberhwk wrote: | | Not sure if that's a valid explination, |
Well no, I think it's a rough approximation of the problem, like the 2 and 4 rule for draw odds. Gets you in the ballpark, but a little optimistic apparently. However I think the slack would be taken up in practice by the fact that birthdays aren't actually randomly distributed.
Another way to think about it is: Consider a roulette wheel with 365 segments, 364 black and 1 red. Spin red to win, but every time you don't win, that segment becomes red and you spin again. As you can imagine, by 20 spins or so, there's a significant amount of red out there, and still one more red each spin. And so you had a tiny 1/365 chance your first spin, but by your 4th spin you're up over a percent per spin and by your 20th spin, you're over 5% per spin. You can see that, while each individual chance is small, by the mid 20s you'd have to have been pretty unlucky not to get lucky one time in 23 spins. So to speak. Now I'm not sure this analogy is valid either, but it makes sense to me and it gives the question a single person perspective that might be useful.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:25 pm GMT by BeerWench13
There were prop or side bets all over the place in the game I played last night. The most common being red or black on the flop. The bet, however, is not that the entire flop will be one color (colour for those of you on the other side of the pond) or the other but that the majority of the flop (a.k.a. at least 2 of the 3 cards) will be that color. There was also the over/under bets where players choose whether the flop will be 2 or more cards over 8 or below 7 with the A counting as a low card.
I don't usually make these side bets unless someone talked me into drinking moonshine and/or whiskey and I'm sitting on a huge stack. Most of the time, if I do, it's for .25 or .50 and no more. Last night they were betting up to $25 on prop bets though usually it's the same guys and they're making $1-$5 bets.
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:42 pm GMT by JohnnyCache
What was the action on those bets? Just even?
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:03 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | What was the action on those bets? Just even? |
Yes. Both players threw their $5-$25 on the side and whichever won took both chips.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:32 am GMT by JohnnyCache
The best one I ever saw was a guy IN A HAND betting a guy not in the hand more then the buy-in out of his wallet that he would "take the pot"
The best part? It was a bluff. And it worked.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:37 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | The best part? It was a bluff. And it worked. |
Nice!
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:53 am GMT by UrAteUp
I used to love prop betting. Some friends and I would prop bet at home games and in the casinos. We loved doing it in the casinos because you could get more imaginative. We would bet on the cards, people and anything else you could imagine and some things you couldn't.
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