Drawing for the mid-low flush. What pot odds to chase? |
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Posted Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:46 pm GMT by Implied_Odds
I believe you would need 4.2 to 1 to draw for the nut flush to have a postive expectation. But for King High Flush and lower, you would need better pot odds than 4.2 to 1, right. So what do you think they are?
Heres a good example:
You have 4h 5h on the small blind. You get 2 callers in front, you call and the big blind checks making it 4 small bets. The Flop comes -
Kh 9h 7s
1st players bets, 2nd calls, and you should call right? You are getting 6 to 1 see the turn. Would you call this?
Also, the more players that are in the pot and calling the flop with a flush draw on the board with no good straight draw makes it more likely that someone has a better flush draw than you. So if the pot is huge with a lot of players (6-10) calling the flop with a flush draw on the board, should you call it with a 5 high flush draw. And if you hit your flush you could get caught up in a big raiseing war and loose a crap load of chips. Anway what is your thoughts on flush draws 3 high to K high and what do you think the pot should lay out?
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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:10 pm GMT by Implied_Odds
bump
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:29 pm GMT by Skribbles
You don't need better odds to draw. You do not know their hole cards therefore you must assume you are the only one drawing to the flush. Now, if you have a PERFECT read on the other play and you know he is also drawing to the flush, screw odds and get out of the hand.
The only way to know if you are drawing to the best flush is when the flush hits.
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:07 pm GMT by Adam Marshall
I'm not a fan of adjusting pot odds based on what I think my opponent has. I don't like mixing math with subjective observations.
Moving this to the "Odds" sub-forum.
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:56 pm GMT by supafrey
| Adam Marshall wrote: | I'm not a fan of adjusting pot odds based on what I think my opponent has. I don't like mixing math with subjective observations.
Moving this to the "Odds" sub-forum. |
Liar.
Flop comes KKQ, two diamonds. You have Ax diamonds. Are you willing to chase this as easily as KT3, two diamonds? Congratulations, you've adjusted pot odds for likely hand holdings.
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:33 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| supafrey wrote: | | Adam Marshall wrote: | I'm not a fan of adjusting pot odds based on what I think my opponent has. I don't like mixing math with subjective observations.
Moving this to the "Odds" sub-forum. |
Liar.
Flop comes KKQ, two diamonds. You have Ax diamonds. Are you willing to chase this as easily as KT3, two diamonds? Congratulations, you've adjusted pot odds for likely hand holdings. |
Yeah, we would never chase in the first hand. Raise baby!
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:22 pm GMT by Implied_Odds
You need two callers to chase a nut flush, right?
Nut Flush comes 35% of the time
You have 33% equity in the pot so the hand gives you a slight positive expectation. Even tough the board can pair and beat your flush but you can still win by spiking an Ace (this cancels out).
Now, lets say you have a 7 high flush draw
Your flush will come 35% of the time but it will not make the nuts. Therefore if you have 33% equity in the pot with a 7 high flush draw against two other players; you might have a 0 to negative expectation in the long run.
Conclusion is, you need a better pot for a lower flush draw compared to a nut flush draw. But when you have more players in play, its a better chance someone else is chasing a better flush draw if your chasing a low one. So, what is it? I don't know?
Any expert adivce here. In what situations do you chase low flush draws. I like to play low/mid suited connectors in late position against a loose passive game. Any good advice here? Thanks.
I'm guessing you just always play a flush draw when you know you'll get 2-3 callers in the hand.
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:25 pm GMT by Gunslinger
Not answering your main question about non-nut flush draws, but just so you know:
You chase a nut flush if the pot is giving you the right odds, regardless of the number of callers.
In a limit game at least, you RAISE a nut flush draw for value if you have enough callers (and if you're last to act). I like 3 or more callers, because you're not guaranteed everyone will call every time.
Posted Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:42 am GMT by jimmer
| Implied_Odds wrote: | 1st players bets, 2nd calls, and you should call right? You are getting 6 to 1 see the turn. Would you call this?
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your odds may justify a call, but are you in a position where you'll have the winning hand? after all nobody has suggested strength. maybe the BB has 2h Th. if that is the case (and it is possible as everyone is limping in), your already beat.
one thing you need to think about is the implied odds. lets just say you call the flop, then the turn, then the river, you'll be getting alot less odds than 6 to 1 and then you could be drawing dead.
don't get me wrong, you'll right to be thinking the way you are, you just need to open up and look at the bigger picture.
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